PB9 Post-game Thread

[Bigger]

Cornflakes dont even needed to send the workers upfront. If you had OB, the 3 pairs of workers needed to be downloaded from galleons in the newly built fort and do the RR before actually declare war. As for you building 1 unit each turn there, the simplest solution would have been Cf to just wait to play after you in the turn, when you will be already sent this newly produced unit to join the stack you are being gathering nearby

yep, that woulda done it, if he was very patient. I was trying to play after him, although it was difficult near the end because he couldnt play until after you played. I also had a large stack there forked so it could hit him or jowy, so he would have to be patient enough to wait for me to attack Jowy.


otoh, my capital was not defended by only 1 unit, so please tell your plan to raze it. preferrably without the snark.

[2metraninja]

this is a lot more condescension than is appropriate from someone that just lost. I never claimed to be an expert. why don't you explain it, then, instead of being a smart ass?

I never claimed to be the winner either, right?

[Krill]

Yeah, it's one of the reasons that AGG, CHM (and potentially IMP) can break the late game warfare metagame. You need 26XP to make commando units starting with no promotions, 17XP with AGG for melee/gunpowder, 20XP for CHM (and a mere 13XP for Boadicea when building melee/gunpowder units).

If someone can build 1 commando unit a turn, well, once railroads come around you don't need to worry about having 2 movers, you can force a defender to devote a huge amount of resources to defending multiple cities. The problem is actually reaching that position.

Vassalage, Theocracy, barracks is 7XP, West Point is 4XP for 11 total (12XP in RB mod). For most leaders, that means they need an additional 8 settled GG (7 in RB mod) (take away 1 for Pentagon) to do that, that's 810 GG points. AGG needs 3, 180 GG points and Boadicea needs 1, so it's possible that some leaders can have multiple cities producing commando units. The takeaway is that it's possible to get to position where mass produced commandos are, well, not common, but they are available in such numbers that a commando strike is a legit strategy.

EDIT: Grammar and numbers are hard.

[2metraninja]

Cornflakes dont even needed to send the workers upfront. If you had OB, the 3 pairs of workers needed to be downloaded from galleons in the newly built fort and do the RR before actually declare war. As for you building 1 unit each turn there, the simplest solution would have been Cf to just wait to play after you in the turn, when you will be already sent this newly produced unit to join the stack you are being gathering nearby

yep, that woulda done it, if he was very patient. I was trying to play after him, although it was difficult near the end because he couldnt play until after you played. I also had a large stack there forked so it could hit him or jowy, so he would have to be patient enough to wait for me to attack Jowy.


otoh, my capital was not defended by only 1 unit, so please tell your plan to raze it. preferrably without the snark.

Had to check the dictionary for what "snark" means. I keep learning. Smart ass I knew what means though.

I am too lazy to search for screenshots where your capitol is defended by a single warrior and your most NW city was defended by 2-3 units. The idea was to take amphibiously this said small border NW city with fast galleons, then unload 1 commando from the fastest, use the railroads and raze that city of yours defended by a single warrior, which was Holly city - I thought it is your capitol.

One thing you are right about for sure, you won. I am not trying to rain on your parade. Dont know why you take it so bad, sensiteve of something? I already said you played good game and I actually preferred that you win, as you were way more reasonable and "kind" if I can say so in a no-speaking game, so I had my heart aching when went and offered to the other guys to dogpile you, giving techs, money, etc. Cornflakes on the other hand was way cocky and I organized the dogpile on him with pleasure

So, peace, bro, you earned your win.

[Commodore]

You neglect to mention Imp Inca, Krill. Quechua provided me a nice commando base too.

[Bigger]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/snarky

This is in fact, my second pitboss, and other than that I've only played a single duel vs Q, and a dozen or so gamespy games, way back in 2006, before warlords was released, so those aren't real relevant.

Use of GG is actually a big weakness of mine, which is why I usually end up stacking them in my HE city.

why didn't you execute that plan when you invaded, instead of ignoring the NW city altogthor and conquering the 2 south of it? you did indeed surprise me, I lost track of your navy awhile back and let it slip from my mind - your attack was really perfect timing to catch me off guard. but once you attacked I don't think you could have surprised me again.

the capital was the northern city off the coast. the holy city south of it that stayed at size 12-14 was not the capital. mmaybe that was the confusion? I might have had it defended by a single warrior on some turns, yes, but the capital was well defended. Obviously I was not aware of the commando threat. krills post makes me want to play a SP game as Boudica and try it out, hehe.

part of the "kindness" was the landscape. unlike Jowy and cornflakes, we had a pretty natural border, and any war would require me putting a lot of hammers and casualties into it to gain territory from you. I preferred to stay at peace and go to war w/ my other neighbors.

[2metraninja]

You neglect to mention Imp Inca, Krill. Quechua provided me a nice commando base too.

Thats nice thought, I never realized the star which quechua comes with can act to take away 9 xp needed to reach Commando. Good one!

[Cornflakes]

I apologize if I came across as cocky or rude or shady in my trades. Some of this is perhaps because up through the dogpile time this was a 2-man team, and with 2 people logging in, making offers, having to discuss offers received.

[2metraninja]

This is in fact, my second pitboss, and other than that I've only played a single duel vs Q, and a dozen or so gamespy games, way back in 2006, before warlords was released, so those aren't real relevant.

This means I was right considering you have no big experience. Then why you are upset if I say you have no experience? Is it so bad to have no experience and learn? Even worse for those with the big experience who lost the game and you won it

Use of GG is actually a big weakness of mine, which is why I usually end up stacking them in my HE city.

Check this out, it will be helpful I hope:

http://apolyton.net/entry.php/51-Ways-of...%28Civ4%29

why didn't you execute that plan when you invaded, instead of ignoring the NW city altogthor and conquering the 2 south of it? you did indeed surprise me, I lost track of your navy awhile back and let it slip from my mind - your attack was really perfect timing to catch me off guard. but once you attacked I don't think you could have surprised me again.

My plan with the commando came just after I saw no one is joining my lonely crusade and I retreated whatever I could. First I had no that many Great Generals back then, but only after fighting with you. Second, you did not had any RR at the time I was attacking you to move my commando on, and third, (you will laugh) silly me I did not even knew you have a city there in the tundra to even consider using it as launch base for my commando strike.

As for timing, it was not perfect, (Krill giving you peace was bad timing, but the whole plan was already moving), but it was not accident at all, I was keeping an eye on your units movements. And still, my timing was some good 3-4-5 turns short. Your powerful stealing got you from muskets vs MGs and Infantries situation to 1:1 in the military technology. I wont even comment on the Cornflakes and Jowi refusal to join me. This is not how you win tight pitboss

the capital was the northern city off the coast. the holy city south of it that stayed at size 12-14 was not the capital. mmaybe that was the confusion? I might have had it defended by a single warrior on some turns, yes, but the capital was well defended. Obviously I was not aware of the commando threat. krills post makes me want to play a SP game as Boudica and try it out, hehe.

Exactly because I saw you are not aware of the commandos at all I was wondering how you would have seen my plan and spoil it and you outright speak about me being smart аss.

As for SP Boadicea commando fun, I think you will be disappointed a bit, because AIs are coded to keep the more important the city, the more defenders. Commandos work best against humans, which of course will want all they want on the pin point of the attack and keep a single usually obsolete unit in their considered safe back core cities.

part of the "kindness" was the landscape. unlike Jowy and cornflakes, we had a pretty natural border, and any war would require me putting a lot of hammers and casualties into it to gain territory from you. I preferred to stay at peace and go to war w/ my other neighbors.

This is how I felt it and for humans, feelings do matter, even when playing complex strategic game as Civ. Trying to separate and deny the human aspect of the game when playing versus humans is mistake and usually it have consequences.

In this regard, now when the game is over, can I ask you if it is true TT wrote something like "Death to CFC!" in your thread? If it is true, you will look even better not giving to this and keeping your "kindness"

[2metraninja]

I apologize if I came across as cocky or rude or shady in my trades. Some of this is perhaps because up through the dogpile time this was a 2-man team, and with 2 people logging in, making offers, having to discuss offers received.

Oh, please, I did not wanted to sound as if you did something wrong on personal level. From the PMs we were exchanging, I decided that you are actually quite a nice guy and person to my like.

And yes, it was about the demands I was receiving from your nation just after you conquered Azza's civ and was looking like the most powerful nation candidate for the win. I got few times offers where I give things for nothing, including strategic resources, money or outright city/cities. I did not knew any of you guys previously (except Azza and to some extent TT) so I was judging for your stile (cocky in your case) only from your in-game actions and interaction No bad feelings at all. I did admired how active you played the game actually. I think your biggest mistake was refusing my proposal to attack Bigger. I had 120 units ready (sorry, Bigger, what you were showing in your super-espionage vision was only small part, I know how terrains and vision works and I know where to put my units so you dont see them), if Jowi entered with his 50-60 units too, then you Cornflakes with your huge army, Bigger would have been brought down for sure the same way you were dragged when you got dogpiled.