Nothing like the Prodigal Sons: The Odd Couple actually play as themselves.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

How much do you value either the Hammam (100h aqueduct, +2happy) or the Janissary (musket/draftable, +25% vs. archer, mounted, melee)? I think that with IND we get far more use out of the cheap mints in the UB slot. I basically only build an aqueduct if I'm going for HG. Skirmishers are cheap MP and basically say let me REX in peace, once we have borders touching somewhere. Until then we can make due with cheap warriors I guess. This is at the cost of 15b, or 2t of tech in the very early game.

[Lewwyn]

TEAM MALI!

[NobleHelium]

Oh good, time for Kuro to take our combo and absolutely ruin it.

Anyway, I'm simming now. With Mali we can do Agriculture -> Hunting -> Pottery -> BW and still get to start cottages on the flood plains right after camping the ivory. We'd work the camped ivory at size 3. We could do a second worker (5t) at size 4 after building a warrior (and putting 1t into a granary) and then use it to road to the second city. Revolt to Slavery t35 (SHOULD HAVE PICKED ISABELLA OMG), 2-whip settler t36, overflow to immediately complete the granary t37. Bam.

[Gaspar]

How much do you value either the Hammam (100h aqueduct, +2happy) or the Janissary (musket/draftable, +25% vs. archer, mounted, melee)? I think that with IND we get far more use out of the cheap mints in the UB slot. I basically only build an aqueduct if I'm going for HG. Skirmishers are cheap MP and basically say let me REX in peace, once we have borders touching somewhere. Until then we can make due with cheap warriors I guess. This is at the cost of 15b, or 2t of tech in the very early game.

Ottomans are a solid civ - good start techs, both UB and UU situationally useful. We'll most definitely build more Forges regardless of IND or not and regardless of Mints or not than Aqueducts, but the Mint bonus is decent, nothing to gameplan around. The real question, that we haven't tried to answer yet really, is whether we get out of the gate faster with an Ag/Wheel start. You guys have proven a Mali start is viable but if we, say get the settler out 2t faster and have x more beakers that might be worth more than the Mint bonus. I suspect not - I suspect the starts will probably end out evenly. But it is probably worth investigating.

[Gaspar]

So we played around a bit more and couldn't find enough advantages with the Ag/Wheel start to override the fact that Mints are better than Hammams or Jans. So Mali it is. Since we have a fair number of complete selections done, I'll start the preview process tomorrow. As previously stated, I'll warn that these will be less robust since I've largely stopped following the other games.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Why be less robust? Just be less factual. If the News Corporation(s) can't be bothered with factual reporting, why constrain yourself? Let'er rip!

[Gaspar]

The Enemies - A Tactical Guide

Volume I - Goreripper



Zara Yaqob of Greece (Creative, Organized, Fishing, Hunting, Phalanx, Odeon)



(Pay close attention to the circle in the bottom left. You'd be amazed how many people get suckered into buying these.)

Known Knowns:

Not much is known about Goreripper - Civ player. A cursory glance through the PBEMlist shows that Goreripper's only previous experience at RB are in the last three WW games. Zara of Greece is a mildly interesting choice. Creative Odeons are sort of the most basic kind of synergy - you get a cheap building to boost your happy cap and give a bit of culture. Odeons are a huge upgrade on the normal coliseums, which you would almost never build. Which to me is why they're really not as good as you think - they're an extra build. CRE is the second best early game trait, after EXP, allowing you to save hammers on monuments and beakers on early religion. It also makes libraries, a building you often build a lot of, cheap. I wanted CRE here because I hadn't played it in a while, but we just couldn't talk ourselves into it being better than EXP. ORG is a nice mid-to-late game economic trait and is better if the game has a lot of coastal plants, because Lighthouses get built in pretty much every coastal city. Where this choice falls down and exposes Goreripper's inexperience is the Fishing/Hunting stinkbomb combo. That's the worst start tech pairing because Fishing and Hunting are the two cheapest techs on the board. While I believe start techs are slightly less important on slower gamespeeds, you're still a significant amount of beakers in the hole to a Ag/Wheel combo right before you even hit enter once. There's nothing in the Grecian toolkit that makes that worthwhile, IMO.

Known Unknowns:

Primarily Goreripper's skill level. He was a quick study at Werewolf and showed himself to be a sharp but abrasive guy. I like him. But it tells us nothing about his talents. There's no obvious early game strategy for this combo, though Cre/Org does somewhat encourage going down the Gaspar Road® - essentially worker techs -> currency since there's no need for early religion or even a detour to monuments and you want to get courthouses in play. That same path also takes you towards Construction and the UB.

Unknown Unknowns:

Everything else - but I don't think there's a piece of grand strategy here that I'm missing.

Goreripper's Yearbook:

Pro Wrestler His Personality Most Reminds Me Of:

Likeliness to Succeed:

Quality of Selection:


Exploitable Weakness: Inexperience leads a bad start, could be early easy pickings.
Biggest Fear: The above happens while he's right next to Seven.

[NobleHelium]

Where's the pregame prediction man?

[Gaspar]

Where's the pregame prediction man?

Going to do that at the end, once all the previews are done.

[Gaspar]

The Enemies - A Tactical Guide

Volume II - wetbandit



Hannibal of Egypt (Charismatic, Financial, Agriculture, The Wheel, Obelisk, War Chariot)



Quid pro quo, Clarice.

Known Knowns:

Perusal of the PBEMlist tells me wetbandit is playing in a four player PBEM -51, as well as two other Pitbosses - the greens PB11, where he is also playing Hannibal and RB Mod PBEM13, with Ichabod. I know him from Fantasy Football and Werewolf. I'd guess what we learn there is that he's active and enjoying his time at RB but from experience, I also know that it can be a ticket to overextension. Three Pitbosses, even with teammates, is way too much going on, IMO. I would expect a lack of focus to detract from his play. Lack of focus sort of jibes with what I've gleaned from my limited interactions with him - he seems reasonably sharp but a bit all over the place as well as incredibly eager to please. These are all good characteristics in a member of a forum, but not great ones in a Civ player.

The pick is one of those not bad ones. Hannibal (or Vicki, depending on your personal trait rankings) was the best FIN leader left on the board. I think CHM is easier for a less experienced player to leverage, so probably not a bad choice. You take Egypt for the start techs, War Chariots also save beakers because you can ignore HBR completely until you need Knights. They're not going to take anyone out for you, but they do serve as an effective early game deterrent to opponent aggression. Obelisks are meh, though whenever you see CHM Egypt you sort of expect a Henge run. I think that's a mistake - the smart play is to leverage the early game advantages for expansion, especially with no Stone on the board. Anyway, everything here is good. There's no great synergy but synergy is hugely overrated.

Known Unknowns:

Again we don't know much about wetbandit's skill level. If anyone who has followed his other games a bit wants to chip in with a thought, please do. Those games probably tell us a lot - like why he signed up here. Has he been struggling in those games and is looking for a chance to redeem himself? Or has he had some near misses and is now looking to put what he's learned to work? Did he sign up hoping he'd get a green-ish game because the early signups went that way and then get sandbagged by us, Seven and a couple others? Lots of questions, few answers. In terms of play, will he be looking to take some aggression out with highly promoted WCs? While that's suboptimal for his long term success, it can have huge influence on the game result.

Unknown Unknowns:

Likewise with Goreripper - anything I'm missing here? I think we've covered the bases.

Wetbandit's Yearbook:

Pro Wrestler His Personality Most Reminds Me Of:

Likeliness to Succeed:

Quality of Selection:


Exploitable Weakness: Overextended leads to bad decisions, is ripe for plucking in the midgame.
Biggest Fear: He's learned lessons from his previous games and is ready to apply them here.