[SPOILERS] By the Rivers of Babylon, FIN has no effect (on krovice)

[Krill]

Depends on speed of that settler really, but 8887 of the whosit front city. Depending on the time scale for that settler wouldn't need new workers beacause the workers at that front city can lay the final 2 roads and then hook the food. Would only really need more units...

[novice]

Depends on speed of that settler really, but 8887 of the whosit front city. Depending on the time scale for that settler wouldn't need new workers beacause the workers at that front city can lay the final 2 roads and then hook the food. Would only really need more units...

I like the worker management aspect of that plan. Since we don't need more workers I think it's actually best to get the settler from our capital. Grow to size 3 on a granary after the bowman, then build settler and add a 16h chop from the forest 33 of DS, and 1-whip it on t59.

I just looked at it very briefly though. Here's an up-to-date sandbox:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1521...dSwordSave

[Krill]

I'll try to get a run through of the sim tonight, thanks for the update

[Krill]

OK, done one run through. The main points I've come up with are:

• We want to road 33 to get the settler to city 4 quicker, and it also makes it easier to chop that forest whilst the northern worker comes back. That forest is chopped really quickly, as you've surely figured out. I like that choice.
  
• Only want 1 worker to farm the rice and mine the gold. Definitely want to get that workboat though: is there any leeway in the MM to potentially double whip the settler if we HAVE to get out another military unit, rather than stacking whip anger?
  
• I don't know what we want out of DS next. We can't grow that city on anything due to happiness, we don't really want workers up there because the only new city in that direction is the dtay front city. I think copper settler comes from here? Not klike there are many other good choices.
  
• The fourth worker is basically free and needs to reposition. I figure it can either road to the capital, mine a hill or just run down and suck up the missing worker turns. If we went with copper settler from DS, I actually don't mind not doing the roads: we lack workers to improve the copper city if we also go for the other whosit front city so a few turns delayed moving south isn't that problematic. Although I don't like the inefficiency.
  
• I'm not 100% sure what to do at city 3. I always thought that chopping the grass forest was a solid plan A, simply because we can't fuck it up with 2 bowmen. But we really ought to hook that cow first, however that puts the workers in a bad position. We need to chop the grass hill 1 of the hill, so Whosit doesn't leave units there, which is more important than the eastern forest. We do actually need a third worker in the area to hook up the fifth city, because we need 1 worker to hook the wheat. That third worker would be the worker from DS IMO, and easily gets there in time.
  
• If the worker roads to the capital, it can head straight onto roading towards city 5. If it runs straight there, we can use it to chop the grass forest.
  
• We want to chop bowmen at city 4. We can use one of the warriors to fog bust, and use the extra bowman to defend the northern city. We will really need to get some real units to defend the north though, so I don't want to delay copper that much longer unless we stumble onto horses.
  
• We can easily slave a worker at size 3 in the third city, and another in city 4 at size 4.
  
• We really need more units. Do you want to just mine the shit out of OT and not bother with the granary just yet?

[Krill]

Ran a quick second sim to see what happens if the fourth worker runs straight to the Whosit front:

• Easily chop the NE forest. Can get out 3 bowmen with no struggle by turn hit size 3 without wastage, need to work a plains forest for a turn or so if we go cow first and send 1 worker to farm the wheat. Use 2 workers to get roads in place and hook food resources at fifth city. Settle fifth city at Whosit front T62. Possible to get a granary at size 2 with 1 bowman though, basically overflow out of the first bowman into the granary plus the second chop, use 1 whip. If put both chops into the granary trivial to get it at size 2...but no bowmen. Don't like it that way. Whip might work, need to know what Whosit is doing though.
  
  
• Have fuck all workers for copper city though. Can whip the settler from DS T62, but city 4 has all tile improvements it wants minus a road and city 3 has a worker free if not wanting to chop anything (ie whip at size 3 into worker). OT is sitting there like the dunce in the corner because it has nothing guarding it, no workers improving it and no happy space until the gold is hooked T65. But because of the gold it kinda makes sense to whip a worker from it...or perhaps just get a worker from DS instead and get a settler from OT? I think it would come out a bit later, and we'd have to stack whip unhappy again (but we'd never carry more than 2 whip unhappy at one time). With workers coming from cities 3 and 4, that would mean 7 workers total if we went worker at DS. Worker would finish eot T58. Not quite in time to be used to chop that forest @33.

Also, barbs can fuck everything up horrendously. But we knew that already, right?

[novice]

This is where you want the city, right?




Here's a t61 save.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1521...dSwordSave

We can settle the city t61 by roading the city tile. One worker runs down from DS - he completes the part-built road, then moves to OT, then part chops a forest, then moves to chop NE of City 3.

City 3 builds a bowman at max food and 1-whips it. Two chops are added to complete the granary after the whip.

[novice]

I think if I were Whosit I would attack that city with chariots.

[Krill]

Yeah, that is where I'd put that city. It's just about the most passive-aggressive place to put the city because Whosit can't settle a city to contest the food resources...which means he can't settle anything east of his cap. We'll have that entire area to ourselves provided Whosit doesn't throw a bunch of units at us. Which then means I think we need to send 1 warrior onto those hills to act as a sentry around T55, soon enough so that we can change plans if he tries to settle that area, but late enough that he doesn't have time to send a settler there if he isn't already planning to. I do want to know where his copper is: does Overland Park have it? If not, and it isn't to the west of that rice/deer, then I expect him to send his third settler to copper (because frankly he is that type of player and he is AGG so axes are just better for him...except against us, poor bastard). If that is all true, then I think we can beat his fourth settler to that area, and that's hopefully enough to get us a good start to the game. After all, I'd rather be dealing with AGG/ORG of Vikings now whilst we have more relative strength from UU and CRE, that has limited land and cities to build armies to throw at us and has mid game advantages out the wazoo.

[Krill]

I think if I were Whosit I would attack that city with chariots.

That's the problem. Need to get that copper hooked asap and save gold IMO to potentially upgrade a spear or two whilst we get spears into position. Bowmen in cities with fort though can trade 1:1, add in 1 spear/city and 1 warrior/city we can upgrade and I think we can hold fine. We could even get a GG.

I'd rather fight this "war" now than in 40 turns though.

[Krill]

The other point is that CH is EXP/IND Zulu and is somewhere on Whosits other flank. I dunno if you want to settle for horses this early when against that.