[SPOILER] PB37: Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the most aggressive of them all?

[Krill]

The point I''m trying to make is that if you are aiming for perfect balance the excuse "It's not that important" doesn't really hold water. I believe that a map can be asymmetrical and unbalanced and it's the asymmetries that create the interest in the game. The PB27 main continents are an interesting construct that show that quite well IMO. Not saying hte PB27 map was perfect, the default idea that a map with 25% of the land available after Astro has some pretty big issues with balance and one right choice strategy.

In game, I'm heading for Music. DS just offered me straight map+OB after initially offering map+OB for map+15gpt, then 10gpt and IO just rejected those out of hand. I don't know how to value OB because it seems to have given me a 17gpt bump so maybe he wasn't that far off with the 10gpt offer. I can tech Music in 4 (need 200 base bpt, I hit 208 without working gold) but I need to save a bit more gold right now. I'll tech Archery and Masonry to 95% completion (whilst saving a bit of gold on each turn over the next 2 turns, then I'll blitz out both to overflow max beakers. That means Archery eot116, Masonry eot117, Music eot119 (or any other tech eot118).

The ability to build Culture will be invaluable, popping borders is a bitch.

[Krill]

Yuris forced a Quechua upgrade to an axe. It was that Quechua I built in the HE overflow build, so it is c2 shock and in a hill city so yuris can't do anything to me except choke me and take a worker. I don't think he is being aggressive, just change that he moved 2 galleys into my vision but in this turn he could dropping off 4 units. I have an additional 2 axes into the city next turn though.

This costs one turn of saving gold. I'm hopeful I can write a thorough update tomorrow as I'm free all day but still planning on Music next.

[Krill]

T117 turn update: Overview

Long story short, I think I'm fucked, but I also think that potentially that is true of everyone in this game.

Anyone who isn't ready to rush Astro is at risk of losing all island colonies. Myself and JR4 can't easily double bulb Astro because we have Meditation, and CoL is a mandatory prerequisite. So we bulb Philo before Astro. I also have another advantage: I have the SP (well, it will finish eot119 unless someone pulls of an amazing steal) and religion spread to almost all cities. Pacifism gives me the potential to generate up to 90gpp in certain cities. This rush to Astro is starting to be a given in our games, it's making me think that Astro needs to have Paper as a requisite again, instead of CoL, and that Galleons need a strength reduction (or maybe caravels needs a combat bonus against galleons or both). Doesn't help for this game though.

My solution to this problem is trivial: generate 3 GS, bulb Philo as well as double bulbing Astro. There are a plethora of island cities with fuck all else to do but generate GP during a golden age. I have a GP that will be produced by T130-T135, that gives me the golden age. The rest is dependent on growth of newly planted island cities, so I easily know what to prioritise.







dtay has our gold island, but I have yuris. I think yuris is trying his luck against me. Does it matter? Not really. dtay could invade me to take 2 island cities. Not worth it for him to potentially put me on tilt, but that would also be the total his spoils if I fall to Gav. Just doesn't make sense for us to fight. dtay has Colossus, so he doesn't want to rush Astro, so his GNP is not actually that threatening to me, but it can make Courva nervous because dtay might be able to take out yuris and then courva has trouble threatening my west and defending from dtay. So I need to cosy up to dtay in the GA.








This is where the threat comes from. Courva borders DS, who is going to lose all the islands he is currently trying to greedily grab when someone gets Astro, yuris, whom is a dead man civving, and me, whom looks like a tasty morsel. I need to get Construction and CG2 archers in this cities next to him, that's partly why I've put the line here, with cities on hills. Courva was the first player to Currency, and I'm pretty sure he has been building wealth. That's like a drug addiction, double counting MFG in the "When I start building an army these cities will make units" and the "I can keep on teching and keep the tech lead up", so I don't quite know if his understanding of the game is congruent with reality. He hasn't triggered a GA, but as IMP/CHM, I don't what his game plan is. maybe role the tech lead into some wonders? He doesn't seem to be powering up to take out yuris, and now with dtay back into a strong position he doesn't have an easy way to do it. So I think I become the target.





Gav is the real threat though, even if in his head right now he just wants a stable border. I'd describe all other threats as ordinary turn of the mill threats, Gav is the existential threat. Everyone else is a threat from galleons but Gav is a threat through land. The only way to defend is through a stack at R101, so long as that city holds Gav gets nothing, but I don't exactly have a stack ready to go. Gav doesn't either, but if he triggers a GA and goes PS (I don't think he does, I think he triggers a GA, goes Rep/nothing/Caste/nothing/OR, burns out a shitload of GP, bulbs to Astro and triggers a second GA to try and grab Mil Science for Grens and at the end of that GA goes into PS). But he could turn on a dime as I don't know when he pops out that great person and the GA, and he could go PS.





I think I should take a pause and rant a bit.

Ventessel played the game as I think any newbie would: badly. He whipped out a stack and attacked me. He misjudged what and how he needed to attack, and in doing so destroyed his civ. HE then AFKs and leaves a vaguely competant sub in place, whom worst of all accepts the situation and happily goes about making it difficult to kill him.

This is just about the worst possible outcome for me personally that could happen. If Ventessel had kept on playing I'd have an easier conquest but now I have the after effects of his attack (and contrary to the previous autocorrect error, it was not "Charity"). I feel that Boudicca is actually viable, but the hit I took in expansion due to having to build units is why I'm behind in growth now. I'm more annoyed because I don't know how true that statement is and my test got fucked with more than anything.

OK, rant over. DZ has precisely one out that I can see, and it works against me: CKN. If he can get to Machinery before I invade, then I'm in shit. I have the swords built for an attack force already, but I need cats. CKN destroy everything I have except HA and WE< and I lack 3 techs of WE and 2 for HA (OK, not expensive at this point, HBR is a 2 turns tech, Construct a 3 turn tech, Archery is 5 beakers form completion). Once current builds finish, everything needs to go to military, and I need to get the capital. If I get that far, I think I can get another 6 cities, plus what I'm founding now. It could give me an edge.

I don't know what Joey is doing...except setting off his own GA. I'm not sure what he and dtay are doing for second GA, JR4 just got Confucianism so no one else is in Caste (and to put this into perspective, last time I played a 2.X series game, by this point Dtay was ready to start throwing knights at me).

[Krill]

Some more thoughts on other players.

Joey seems to have destroyed his economy so badly even the GLH doesn't work, and has lots of island cities that means he is especially at risk to an early Astro. If he decides to (somehow) force out an artist, he will seriously struggle to get to Astro in time.

JR4 is founding all the religions, so it looks like a lot of people are going to have difficulty running Theocracy which has an interesting effect for later game naval warfare.











That crop yield difference just isn't going away...but I have 64 pop. dtay has over 100. Take out that additional 80 food to support that pop and it's not quite as terrifying in terms of pop growth rate. Yield is a bit of a different matter, but in this screenshot you see the effects of a shrine and AGG on supporting tech. Given that MFG has a hidden 20hpt-ish from unit builds through the HE I'm not that concerned from the MFG. The soldier numbers aren't even that bad: no one has much they can use to threaten right now due to the toroidal nature of the map.

















My score is going to start picking up as the land form settling cities 7 and onward comes in. DS has finally gotten Currency and seems to be going ham on wealth builds. You can see Couer's graph is too sharp which highlights the wealth builds. Everyone else is fucked.

On a side note, look at the trait choices for this game: ignore yuris and DZ. There are no PHI, FIN or ORG leaders in the game. Tech is going to be incredibly slow. Everyone went for expansion orientated traits, or AGG/CHM. Except JR4 who picked up SPI.

Map is stupendously similar, looking at the MFG in terms of hammers available, but that should start changing with forges. Workshops won't alter this until someone gets into caste as well as techs MC, which is not that close.

I'm not sure how to value the lack of crop yield given I'm assuming an extra 20hpt and 20gpt that requires no food to support it, without the additional costs of supporting that population. I think this inability to value output without costs (plus the extra XP on the majority of units I build), especially on a map so rigid with similar leader traits is going to fuck with my head a bit.

[Krill]

No one is in a position to blitz out a big tech, but I think that dtay may have just finished Machinery. I ought to check this, but it's not that important: dtay will not rush Astro so a Machinery beeline suggests Guilds, or potentially a CS route to open up AGG maces. but Machinery is enough to stomp yuris with trebs, Xbows and grab some HA...but if not, once I grab Msusic the KTB goes to 4% per player.





I don't have an unreasonable amount of land. Depending on what I could get from DZ/Ventessel it could actually be a pretty good amount but I would need to then take Astro and cram CR3 swords down someones throats.





Revolting religion in a golden age is obvious, but hey it's keeping my economy afloat.

[Krill]

Ugh, can't sleep, it's almost 5AM but I just don't want to go through the cities because that involves counting and my head hurts

We're up to T119 no and I think it makes more sense to take the screenshots of the cities again and then do the micro. Maybe later.

I'll post F1 for posterity though.

[Krill]

OK, this was not entirely expected. The timing sure wasn't.

Dtay just revolted into Vassalage, and we know he has MC. So he could just be one tech from Knights. There's the tech pace I was looking for (remind me to nerf the Ikhanda back to 10% city maintenance reduction).

That puts yuris on count down that he's going to die. Courva needs to make sure he has something in his front city, preferably longbows himself. I also noticed that he just built HE in a southern, landlocked city so this should be viable if he can get there in time. I don't see any forges so it looks like he lacks MC, which means Courva is no where near pikes or longbows. He needs to focus on land defense and shouldn't thionk about attacking me (although as a newbie it's not a good idea to rely on meta game knowledge and even worse to rely on Bacchus to not be pissed off I'm settling island cities they might psychotically think are theirs).

This puts me in a bit of a bind. I need to go full bore on Music in case I lose it to Courva, but I no need to be mindful that I need Caste to do a 3 GS strategy to bulb GS, Construction is necessary for Colosseums to ensure I have double promo archers to hold island cities and I still need to get MC for triremes. I've been working how to defend the island cities and I've come to the conclusion I need the Music artist because I might need to use that for an early GA, revolt religion and into Theo and push out 1 promo boats. That means I need MC ASAP as well. In fact, with Courva not having MC I just need basic triremes now and a sentry net and I can hold OK-ish if I whip the western coastal cities. The problem there is I must grow WD and BM to sizes 13 and 8 respectively to make the triple bulb plan work. I also have to be mindful of the happy cap, and to that end I need to whip this turn in WD for a lighthouse. So BM can be whipped a bit but not too hard.

I think I have to build Wealth almost everywhere for a few turns to grab Music (due eot 120, next turn) and then save gold for CoL, MC and Construction in some order. I'm also going to tweak the GP plan a bit and get the next GP from AF. I can do this whilst still 1 turning units ()should have thought of this earlier, more efficient than build settlers out of overflow but hey I still needed those settlers), gives me a great person, mixed odds Artist or GS eot132. If it is a GS, then I could use the Music GA for a GA, and I only need to pop out 2 more GS for the Astro bulb. If I pop a GA instead, then I can keep on generating GP points in R101 and keep it behind the threshold for a second golden age with the Music GA and R101 GP if I don't need to artist bomb.

I need more pop, but looks like I might not be able to get it.

[Krill]

And just to be clear, dtay with CG3 lb in coastal cities can't be boated. So Gav has no expansion routes except through me or DS, I might be forced to follow to Fued as well but at least that gives double promo boats to me.

[Krill]

SP landed, Music next turn, then I'm going through all cities to consider what cities need to stay on wealth. But most importantly I offered gold to Gav for 1gpt. Let's see what he makes of that offer.

Next turn I also build culture in some of the new cities to pop borders earlier and hook food resources. I'm almost back to the rival average in crop yield, not that that means anything.

[Krill]

Astro is 4k beakers.

If I tech CoL I have to tech Philo for 1k beakers. If I get a GS from AF it makes sense to bulb Astro before researching CoL and Machinery is a better defensive tech than Fued, plus I have Theo for boat promotions.

I'm wondering if the Astro beeline is the most obvious tech path here.