[SPOILER] PB37: Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the most aggressive of them all?

[Krill]

No pictures right now, but I'm hopeful that I can spend some time on a lazy saturday waiting for Irma to land writing up some stuff.

OK, so I got the GS. That means Music artist for GA, 300gpp GS (Western city via starvation), 400gpp GS (Not Bates Motel, that city gets Moai after a forge whip this turn) then I have everything for Astro. I do have the option of only single bulbing Astro but I would rather spend the extra food and accept the opportunity cost. (FWIW, I think that running Pacifism for 7 turns has more strategic usefulness than Theo for 7 turns. And probably OR, but I do need to consider the effect of leaving hte GA in Slavery/OR if I can have the means to revolt out of it about 10 turns later? Because HR/Vas/Slav/nothing/OR still gives me decent options on boats and same advantage on land units, but I could get out a round of court houses via the whip? In some island cities, a triple whip with OR gives an extra 17 hammers, but I'll have such bloated cities I could probably get two triple whips out every city). But to do that, I need the next set of great people to trigger the GA, which means:

500gpp (GS, Watership Down) and 600gpp (Nightshade? But if I drop out of Caste can I get this? Wait, get this from R101 and Nightshade Could get the 500gpp GS and WD gets the 400gpp GS). Means that leaving hte GA in OR is possible, but I would need to grab Feudalism in the GA. Maybe I should get Monarchy first and revolt into that on the first turn?! Along with the religion that gives me al the hapiness I will need after stacking a bit of whip anger with the triremes).


I've not researched CoL this turn, but I have dumped the overflow so if I need to I can triger the GA with one turns notice, if I need to ie someone invades me or seems to be making their own play to Astro nad I need to reply for safety. I make over 100gpt with no wealth builds still, but I am about to finish a round of forges before the GA (if I can't use OR, this GA is probably the only chance I'll have to get Markets and stuff down in the important cities). Missionaries for the last two cities are either on the way or finished this turn. NIght shade is size 5 and grows this turn, eot133, 134, 136, 137, 138 and I want it at size 12 which I think it reaches eot140 still.

Hmm, more later, got to go and do stuff.

[Krill]

Sweet.

Now get out of Irma's way.

I'm in Aiken SC with family, going to weather this weekend and then make new plans. Might end up on a road trip to JFK for the flight back. Got a 91 year old great aunt that is up here a bit longer due to the storm, so going to spend time with her and see how I can help out.

[Krill]

More info on misclick.

Coeur offered stone for marble. I can't use marble for anything but I need.it for moai so I have no reason to accept the offer. The game accepted the offer when I was logging in, I think because I was using a browser on the tablet and it may have misread a click. My fault for using the browser. If the game isn't reloaded I basically have limited choices in what to do, I can pillage the stone, I can try and trade for another, but have nothing to offer. I could try and settle another stone but I can't do any of these quickly and it fucks me over quite a bit at Bates Motel.

I think a reload is iffy to grant in this situation, OTOH it does not benefit me except to put me back to where I was if the diplo screen had not existed, I have no need information, nothing else changes, and it would be quicker cover because I would need to replan for the next 10 turns and that means I wouldn't play this turn or probably the next 10 in a rush. So on the whole it's probably better for the game to just reload if it can be done quickly.

[Krill]

Shrine is chugging along, 31gpt, spreads to final city next turn, t135. Market is therefore worth 8gpt from next turn. It's already built but I need to build grocer and bank asap.

Up to 4th in crop yield. Looking like double GS bulb will complete Astro straight. I have enough gold to one turn CoL, Monarchy and then have a turn of max research left. Machinery is a 2.5 turn tech at max, and I make 340bpt/-200gpt at max tech, +120gpt saving gold. I have no idea how much pacifism breaks stuff.

I need courthouses, but I really find them hard to build outside the GA except via the whip, which reinforces the idea of Vassalage and OR. I also need to figure out what techs I need for army composition because I must be wary of power Issues. AF finishes a market this turn but I can only build swords, not helpful...

[Krill]

Things move quickly in this game.

Couer popped a GS and blew a GA. Declared war on DS, right after DS built MoM and blew his own GA and revolted to caste. I have the option of declaring on DS to take a border city he settled that tries to steal a one time island of pigs from one of my cities, but he is giving me 21 commerce per turn in trade routes.

I have 840 gold save, enough for 4 turns of max research and plan to blow my GA on T139 ie in 3 more turns. I need to tech CoL, which takes one turn so with saving gold and that tech turn I should have enough gold for 5 turns of max research in a GA and I have a few libraries finishing by then.

I have shit power. I need to build units, but I want Vassalage. I want Vassalage to save me the cost from pacifism as well, but I can't get Feud Monarchy and CoL in 3 turns. I have to revolt on the first turn of the GA, and I have to revolt on the last...fuck I need to figure this s out before DS plays his turn as I don't know if Couer is going to attack the city I can capture...

[Krill]

If Couer is planning to get the second GS in the GA, he will pop Astro around T141.

If he does that, then the known tech bonus bumps up from 4% to 6% per player. If he thinks I will not fuck with him and let him try and defend from dtay, then if I am a few turns late to Astro then it's not a big deal. 3 people have Feud and Monarchy, maybe more players grab that and I can draft really fast in the GA? But I still need to be building units right now, and I can only stack up builds in a GA so far until I can get into Vassalage.

I still need Construction and HBR...I need something to sink hammers into at AF. If anything, the HE rush is actually showing the problems via constricted tech path...I want Xbows or Knows. So maybe I can delay the GA slightly, rush to Feudalism.

God these decisions. Rushing to Feud uses all the saved gold.

[Krill]

I'm not going to attack this. I don't think the city is that valuable, and it would mean I have a 3 city front that can be forked from the barb city that Couer just capture. THis city is on flatland, so Couer has a less stable front if he keeps it, and I have the head start on shoving culture into the ontested pigs tile.





Crop yield has recovered, but I need to get everything else in order now. Bulbing Astro fixes a strategic weakness inherent for every player on this map, but I need to build units, and I need to build forges and court houses. Buildings units during the GA seems smart, which puches me towards taking Feudalism, and then whip forges/courthouses after the GA ends whilst in OR, then revolt out when I start the second GA shortly afterwards.





I don't think Caste is viable long term, but workshops are still viable: just needs Guilds to make them worthwhile. My high crop yield suggests I'm growing faster than al opponents now, but I need to put that pop onto good tiles, so I may need to throw out a lot of workers (I have 13 workers...I probably need 20).





I can one turn units and still produce so much gpp that I could try and force the 600 gpp mixed GP from here. I would want to work an engineer and merchants for a GE/GM/GA shot. Trebs require 36 base hpt to be one turned, and Trebs are most likely collateral used to take out DZ (Trebs, swords and Xbows off galleons on two flanks whilst a stack works up the middle is hte quickest way to take him out).





The shrine priest slots are amazing and massively underrated. Growth now and like AF, just ride beneath the rising GP counter, and once the GA is over I can still push out the GP here a bit later. Barracks and units after the library. Begging for a Colosseum but whatever.

OK, adding this in after going through all the cities to Nightshade: if I don't run caste, I struggle to generate GP. WD is a good city for the NE, and R101 needs to have Wall Street (or plan to build it), but R101 has the specialists slots to run specs every single turn. If it keeps the food resources. R101 can work the horse, copper, and iron and still run 5 specs and all the cottages. There are two final grasslands that could be farmed, can give up one hill to AS, and windmill the remaining hill. So I sould consider building the NE here, and I can build that alot faster. I could even build it during the GA...could I trade for mable? A calendar happy that I don't need once I get into HR and religion? Or maybe go for Parth??? I need to think about this. Parth is obsoleted at SM right?





Barracks and units after the lib, but potentially galleons as well? So maybe prebuild a galley to queue upgrade. As R101 will work as many priests as possible to use the pacifism and GA bost, WP can pick up the cottages. I also want to work the plains wills during hte GA as well, and I think it makes sense to cotage both of these. I'm still not sure what's happening with the shared food, playing it by ear, trying to maximise population for the GA right now.





Obvious forge and court house whip after the GA, but in the GA probably worth building the barracks and units and a queue upgraded galley again, like in WP? Just working the forest this turn to not overflow out hammers from the library and still grow in 3. I think the forest gets chopped for a workshop, but no point doing it right now.





Let's just ignore the fact this city exists. Religion auto spread to 12M right as the missionary was about to do it, but I expect to build a few settlers soon for the ast few locations, and I don't see anywhere better to build missionaries that here (partly because missionaries are beneath R101 now and no other city can build them).





OK if I went golden on T139, then Moai would finish eot142 with no overflow, needing 4 turns of GA production to finish. If I delay the GA two turns, I think the finish date gets pushed back to eot143? but once Moai is finished, Galleons. Lots and lots of Galleons and workshopping that last tile, but a market does need to be worked in for the happy at some point (aka build and whip along with a court house). Probably give the fish over as well, but that is a micro decision.





First of the GP cities. 400gpp city, GS, size 13 working 8 specs. Popped on end of GA turn (eoGAt) six, working 8 specialists, will steal the pig to sustain food neutrality. This can be achieved on T139, need happy from religion and slave whip wearing off.

If I could build NE here, I would do. I can finish the forge, can whip the library, but need to grab marble and workshop that jungle tile. I think that if I can't trade for marble, I have to settle that shitty one tile island now that it won't affect city maintanence much. But if it is the NE city, it needs spec slots, so there is then a new problem to try and solve.





Galleon production centre, but might end up having to just build workers here until the prebuilt galleon pops out.





300gpp GS, work 9 scientiests for 2 turns, 8 scientiests for 2 turns, GS popped eoGAt4. Must sustain size 11. Due to food scarcity, makes 12fpt at size 11, so loses 10fpt for 2 turns, then loses 8fpt for 2 turns, so needs to have 36 food saved at start of GA. Grow eot136, then save food T137, 138, but I can't grow because I need the food. If I delay the GA I still don't really want to grow but I don't have scientist slots available. If I grow to size 12 then I can't use Pennyroyal to get the 300gpp GS until T141, to work a farmed plains tile during a GA...probably just going to max out the food bar and then park on citizens to maintain the fod bar at 1 food below growth.





Who gives a shit.





OK, this is where I start getting a migraine and think I need to take the risk that Couer won't invade, and delay Astro. I need size 12 to sustain 8 scientists and food neutral. That requires 67 food to reach, which takes 5 turns to reach, 4 turns at max growth, and the fifth turn requires 2 coasts to be worked to grow to size 12. So...I could suck up some lost food by not working food resources to make up the turn I have to work 6 specs (ie if I trigger GA on T140, I can work 6 specialists, and then on T141 and T142 work 9 specs and not work the 5 food seafood tile). Therefore I can sustain the 500gpp GS from T140, a one turn delay on the GA. If I delayed the GA until T141, then I can just sustain 8 specs for 7 turns and get the entire GS, then whip everything from size 12 (library, courthouse, market, forge in some order? I need the forge for happy, not hte hammer bonus, so whip that first??) If I am not using Caste (looking at the MFG numbers, amount of food and lack of land tiles, the whip just looks better) then I can't really grab anything from this city except hammers via stacking unhappiness, unless I build the spec slots myself.

At this point I went back and edited the entry for R101.




I do have an option to push culture in Foxglove to stop Couer planting close to to Foxglove, artists are a decent choice? Probably just going to spend the GA growing on coast otherwise? Decent location for a future gp farm, maybe the 700 gpp location in the second golden age? Artist points aren't wasted then, if I use that GP for the third GA.





Just grow on coast? Don't fuck with dtay, Couer will probably contest the northern islands, I only want to keep this place as an outpost so maybe worth building Walls and dumping in an Lbow or two makes sense. Just want output of any type from this city. The hill mins should be ready for the GA though, finish the library then grow?





Couer has a spear on the island to the west, so it looks like he wants to settle it. I don't think fighting for this island makes sense for me, but a library pushes up culture to 4cpt so I'll pop third ring borders pretty quickly. More growth on coast for a GA makes sense, if I want to be a jerk I can run artists here (walls will hold until I hit 40% culture anyway).





Galleon prebuild, then whip forge, courthouse, library? Hill will be mined for the GA but I'l end up using the plains tiles to micro to make the whips easier. The rice can't ever be irrigated, but long term will need to workshop the plains hills and likely use this as a major naval producer.





This city and Mandrake are forked from Couer's captured barb city once it pops borders, just by galleys, galleons can forke them from a number of locations. Due to this, I don't want to invest too much into Bracken, but terrace, lighthouse, are a given. terrace will be whipped on T138, lighthouse probably gets whipped after teh GA, but I have to decide whether I mine hte hill or pasture the pigs first. If I can't whip, I think the mine makes sense, as then I don't have to return the worker to this island.




Now that the sugar is hooked at AS, I think I'l have three workers chopping and improving everything here Unfortunately, I don'd see how I can whip the terrace before the GA comes in, so I need to focus on getting the hammers tiles hooked IMO. So pasture the horse, chop the ivory, road the iron then mine that with three workers. ANd shove a longbow or two into the city.





It's beautiful. 34 gpt from the shrine, with a market that's 40.5gpt for no food, no additional costs.

[Krill]

OK, update: I have researched CoL T136, Monarchy T137, I finish Feud T139@70% with 130 gol saved. I'l save gold T140 and then play T141 after Couer (probably going to be playing T141 last anyway due to RL issues, don't know what's happening over the next few days WRT travelling to Florida and Disney World).

I will trigger the GA T141, with an expected 300 gold saved, and probably going to save gold for a further turn, maybe two. I am will go with the plan to push out three great people, but I think I am going to get a GM from Nightshade as the 500gpp GP rather than a GS in case I need to fire a quick second GA before I bulb Philo and Astro. I'll still have the 3 GS though.

As I finish Feud, I will start by getting out a few LB (probably 10ish?) to bolster my power rating and shore up defenses against Gav and on the islands, plus they make decent stack units against DZ. I'm thinking about tech path again, because the more I look at the map, the more I think Couer is not a htreat to me if I delay Astro a little bit, and I may need to take the opportunity to grab Construction, HBR and Guilds, or maybe, dending on bpt, I may just research Philo. Current I make 430bpt at max outside a GA. Revolt civics and it might not change much, but saving a philo bulb would be really helpful in an potential Lib or Economics race.

I am looking at options for the GA, about what needs to be done. I think that slaving courthouses in OR, after I use the GA to build forges and some units, is a much better way to shore up my economy. I'm second in crop yield, 50 behind dtay. my GNP is sound, and the shrine will give me a further 30gpt with a bank and grocer. I have a few more workers out, so workshops and watermills can go own to shore up my MFG. What I really could do with doing is taking out DZ in 5 turns, and to do that I need three stacks, Astro and a good number of units.

That's the bit I'm focusing on now. I think I need to grab Machinery next, and it's a two turn tech. If I can grab that quickly, then I can probably one turn out CR3 trebs from AF, and the rest of the solution is just about hte numbers of cities I have building units.

[Krill]

Point on tech path.

I will be in Vassalage, so I need to get construction for colosseum and Theo to reach triple promo land units. This works for everything until muskets. I can substitute stables for Theo for knights. I need HBR for knights, WE, HA and stables, plus it looks like no one will reach Astro before me except maybe Couer.

Galleons are not going to help me take cities without land units on them, so it makes sense to to us on the tech I need to build an effective army. The next tranche of units includes CR3 laces which will need CS, but I can't tech that until after I bulb Astro, because then GS will bulb paper and education.

If I don't think I need to rush t Astro, I still need Machinery for tile improvements, xbows (better utility for anti swords) and future unlock of laces and on the way to Guilds. As I'm am making about 50, maybe 75 base bpt from scientists, it makes sense to dump the beakers into Machinery whilst saving gold as in the GA, the cheaper techs of HBR and construction going take only 1 turn to complete.

That leaves me with the option of researching Philo. Saving a GS bulb is difficult to measure, but it puts me atleast 800 beakers closer to Education and FM at Economics, at a cost of potentially delaying Astro. If I figure I can delay the decision, I could get HBR, construction and maybe Compass to 1 turn from completion and then role over the beakers for Philo. I don't think I need more than two of them though, maybe only 1, Philo is only 1k base beakers. So with a golden age and 300g saved on t141, I could theoretically grab Philo eot143, construction and Machinery by eot147? Maybe even eot146? Or I could have Guilds instead, or even Engineering. But I think Astro is worth not waiting too long for because I do want a half dozen galleons around to piss off Joey with CR3/C1 maces.

But thinking longer term, if this GA ends eot148, and I go into OR, I want the second GA started by T160 and to be in FM by the end of that. I also have to consider Lib if I double bulb Astro and have a GS spare...

[Krill]

So today has been a busy day, thought there would be more players around and I'd be stuck with a double turn, but obviously not.

News hot off the turn is that Gav just triggered a GA less than 5 minutes ago and revolted to Caste. He was that last player I thought might attack me, but I have a perfectly timed GA next turn, see what Couer does at teh end of his GA, revolt into 4 civics (HR/vas/Caste/nothing/Pacifism), all the GP cities are set up, I'm safe from attack whilst I'm unable to reply and I'm rectifying my power weakness/lack of units.

The really interesting thing is that pre-GA, my economy seems to have exploded. 450bpt/-230gpt, +185gpt at max sliders (Ed: these numbers from T140, report from T136, 4 turns ago, shows numbers as 370bpt/-200gpt, +140gpt max sliders, a 20% improvement over 4 turns?!). Pop is up to 13.2% of world total (it dropped to 9.0 a while ago), and I have forges in all 5 major mainland cities (except 12M which frankly sucks, but will have a forge built in the GA and be able to whip a courthouse easily enough afterwards, the cost of using it to get out a few settlers plus the lack of food there). I've been thinking about my tech aims, but I just don't know what the real limit is by, say the turn or two after the GA has finished. I'm wondering if I'm going to be pushing 700bpt max in the GA with tile reallocations, and if I can sustain that for 5 turns out of the 8 (with 300g in the bank at teh start) then that is...well, alot, given the KTB for Machinery, HBR, Construction, tech Philo as well, Compass and Optics, double bulb for Astro by the end of the GA? Swap Philo for either CS, Guilds or Engineering if I want to spend an additional bulb that I may not have to now? And as I'm the only player with Pacifism, then I am going to be best placed out of everyone to trigger my second GA when I need to push to Lib and Economics, and I will not need to trigger it for civics as I will have everything in place for the end of the GA. Damned pleased with how the side step to Feud is working out.

I figure the real question then goes back to OR or Theo? It's not like I need OR for Barracks, Colosseums, drydocks? (Actually, I should look at that as a beeline and possible Lib target? 8XP ironclads kill everything, drydocks are halfprice for me, and 8XP cannons out of every city is delectable). OR costs gold but saves me hammers on courthouse whips. I want to whip forges as well, just grab both of those in all the island cities...I'l 4-5 whip them in certain cities (16fpt is useless when the city makes 3hpt maximum in Nightshade). But with OR, I'll make 112.5 hammers into the forge with a 4 whip, then 105 hammers into the court house with a 3 pop whip, so I think it's just obvious that I take OR and save 3-4 pop which gives me another item to then whip before I drop out of OR (hell, I can consider losing a turn to revolt into Theo if I'm saving that amount of hammers over 10 cities). Theo only makes sense if I think I need to grab colosseums and go straight for 8XP units in all major cities, or I need 4XP boats immediately. But if I'm the first or second to Galleons and Couer and I have a detente then do I need that etra XP? I doubt it.

OK, that means OR is a given. Forges and Courthouses are available in all cities, and with the whip the forge makes sense. Libraries are easy to grab with overflow and a few hammers so probably aren't worth whipping in the majority of cases, but marbe Markets are? 4 pop gives 135 hammers and +3 happy so if I can afford them I think they are a no brainer as a third improvement whip. All the island cities make 10+ fpt or a good chunk of hammers that lowers the amount of pop needed, so I figure that forges, courthouses and markets in every city can happen within 10 turns of the end of a GA. Mainland cities go onto units, they all have forges and can prebuild units (Treb, Xbow, Lbow until Construction comes in and I get the Colosseum down (the XP matters for reaching the next promo and healing in war, so unless I need the units I will delay them to save unit costs in pacifism and for the tactical benefit).

I need a few more settlers ready for war with DZ and to fill out a few remaining locations, so I also need to plan to grab those settlers. Potentially via whip, not sure, I'll have to wait and see where I can fit them in, but 4 settlers seems appropriate. I already have two missionaries built.

Workers? I think I've just grabbed another 3, which will be enough, maybe? I might need more workboats though, and I will need combat workers, so that's something else to consider.

OK, that's probably the end of my stream of conciousness. I'm in an interesting position, and I know I'vesaid that if I can get an equal economy, I can win through better units if I have the same amount and I don't make stupid mistakes (maybe that last part was implied...), and I didn't think I'd reach it earlier, but I feel like I can see the summit.

Might post more about tech later, but I'm still mulling over options.