[SPOILER] PB37: Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the most aggressive of them all?

[Krill]

Boudicca is viable. Joey got to this point because no one challenged him, and bother neighbours settled away from him. 150 turns of peace, neighbour luck is real. If he wins this game I'd have to seriously ask: what did he actually do?

uhhh................... wtf is this trash talk? and how can you even say this when WE LITERALLY HAD THE SAME NEIGHBOR ?!??

You answered your own question there. Neighbour luck is an accepted thing, ffs China never seemed to move a military unit closer than 7 tiles from their own capital towards you: how could you not accept that is better than having 300 hammers of military thrown at you on t65?

[Krill]

I figure the game ends in about 30 turns, Joey has to make a move and if he goes for the "safe" option of Carthage's islands...well it won't be enough...although Joey might not realize that and not concede...? Fuck I hope not.

hmmm.

Yeah, I was right: you put a choke on dtay and stopped us development, enough to push you far enough ahead to force the concession.

[Krill]

Boudicca is viable. Joey got to this point because no one challenged him, and bother neighbours settled away from him. 150 turns of peace, neighbour luck is real. If he wins this game I'd have to seriously ask: what did he actually do?

uhhh................... wtf is this trash talk? and how can you even say this when WE LITERALLY HAD THE SAME NEIGHBOR ?!??

Man, dont take this too serious. Krill got upset after Courva decided to attack him. Ask same question "what did Krill do?".

I did nothing but scrap all game. Effective? Not if I wanted to win. Can't stop newbies attacking into death traps though.

[OT4E]

Man, dont take this too serious. Krill got upset after Courva decided to attack him. Ask same question "what did Krill do?".

I did nothing but scrap all game. Effective? Not if I wanted to win. Can't stop newbies attacking into death traps though.

May be do something else than making "death traps"?

Imho you were the only one in this game who could make GJ's victory much harder to happen.

[RefSteel]

Ventessel's choice of targets had nothing to do with "neighbor luck." Only one of you pink-dotted him with your starting Settler! For that matter, wasn't Animal Farm on flatland? It's true that Ventessel shouldn't have thrown 300h of military at you on T65, but that was neighbor luck working in your favor: Another player would've thrown 45h of military at you on T25, and it would have been an entirely different (and probably much less interesting) game.

[Krill]

Man, dont take this too serious. Krill got upset after Courva decided to attack him. Ask same question "what did Krill do?".

I did nothing but scrap all game. Effective? Not if I wanted to win. Can't stop newbies attacking into death traps though.

May be do something else than making "death traps"?

Imho you were the only one in this game who could make GJ's victory much harder to happen.

I agree, and I had two significant opportunities to do so: whilst he was invading China, and the second whilst he was attacking dtay.

The former I wasn't out 4th in power, had no units on land and I think Joey had city visibility on me because I was stuck fighting Couer, whom had shown a propensity to attack whenever he could find an edge. So even if I signed peace, I had only a 10 turn window and then had to fight two opponents. So I don't think I could have won then.

The latter well, I was down Ironclads and rifles to muskets and frigates. And I'm certain Joey had city vis at that point.

So frankly, neither opportunity was straightforward.

Ventessel's choice of targets had nothing to do with "neighbor luck."  Only one of you pink-dotted him with your starting Settler!  For that matter, wasn't Animal Farm on flatland?  It's true that Ventessel shouldn't have thrown 300h of military at you on T65, but that was neighbor luck working in your favor:  Another player would've thrown 45h of military at you on T25, and it would have been an entirely different (and probably much less interesting) game.

He couldn't attack with a unit on t25, I already calculated that around when I settled AF. Mirror starts are stupid, I could work out his micro so I knew what was possible.

I don't know how you can think that actually being attacked is a good thing though. Everyone also seems to have missed a major point: if I had settled in place, and settler second city for AF, then how could I defend that city against such an attack that occured? I don't think I could have held a forward city, and I'm fairly sure Gav could have settled.frward before I could due to traits.

[Krill]

And Joey, congrats on the win. No player can do more than beat the person in front of them, taking advantage of whatever opportunities come their way, and you did it by the book. Wish you'd left me Churchill though.

[OT4E]

What about invading China with minimal number of well-promoted units. Isnt it what Boa designed for?

Oracling aestatics was smart and very interesting move but may be you just needed a pack of swords?

Or you could use GA to bomb against GJ in case he tried to counter you. I think there were more options.

Also I was serious about not making "death traps". If I remember correct you deleted Queucha which revealed an incoming attack. Sometimes you can reach better outcome if people see that you are not easy target. Same with Couerva who trusted your low power curve when was making final decision to attack you. May be if you ever tried to put scout or better initial garnisson he would have changed his mind.

[JR4]

Boudicca is viable. Joey got to this point because no one challenged him, and bother neighbours settled away from him. 150 turns of peace, neighbour luck is real. If he wins this game I'd have to seriously ask: what did he actually do?

I`d just like to point out that we probably did a mistake in allowing Joey the awesome State of Zijin border site between him and us by settling SE with our third city. When we did that I found it kind of hard to believe that a neighbor could settle up on us with both his two first Settlers! Alas, SoZ was founded on a hill with a killing field in front of it so it was always going to be a tough nut to crack.

Also, we got Guilds before Joey and actually planned to take down SoZ at all costs. That city was a thorn in our side. But when Joey responded by stuffing his city with multi-promo Longbows the attack was called off. After that we kind of accepted the border as it was and tried to make ourselves as prickly as we could.

Following the happenings in former China from a distance, I`m slightly puzzled that Joey got so much of that land for himself. Surely, Anchorage alone must have been worth some losses? Not to mention that denying it to Joey could have made it more likely for you to keep up with him.

[Krill]

What about invading China with minimal number of well-promoted units. Isnt it what Boa designed for?

Oracling aestatics was smart and very interesting move but may be you just needed a pack of swords?

Or you could use GA to bomb against GJ in case he tried  to counter you. I think there were more options.

Also I was serious about not making "death traps". If I remember correct you deleted Queucha which revealed an incoming attack. Sometimes you can reach better outcome if people see that you are not easy target. Same with Couerva who trusted your low power curve when was making final decision to attack you. May be if you ever tried to put scout or better initial garnisson he would have changed his mind.

I agree that going on the offensive with a few CR swords was an option.

The reason I didn't do it was that CG2 archers would have been enough to stall the attack. Ultimately I was cautious and that was perhaps a mistake, but 3 CG2 archers would have stopped 4 to 5 CR2 swords. If I built the swords instead of SoZ then maybe it could have fit in. Another option could have been to just try for construction but IW gave double gems. I think there may have been other options but given that it was t70 before the attack was turned it wasn't as quick as it'd seem.

Oracle also gave me the shrine though, and the shrine gave me priest slots for golden ages. Oracle to Maths and teching Construction was possibly the high risk high reward play here.

Also at this point, Gav was settling he chose me point south and I was potentially in a two front war. It was only after this that the relationship with Gav solidified.

GA bomb pretty much required oracle to Aesthetics, so using that bomb to hold the capital...eh,. I'm m not sure how it would have worked out, to many maybes and what ifs.

The quechua was delated iirc because it may have given a promotion to an axe that would then have screwed up the running order of battle. I was building more units at this point, I had a barracks, the only iffy bit is the third city. I don't think delaying the third city would have been wise, as it did provide military units for the defense.

At the same time, the first attack by Couer was actually only defendable by triremes, and I couldn't build them until I got MC, so I don't think there was a way to get them earlier without ignoring Currency.