[Spoilers]C6PBEM23: Krill sidles yonder, and probably fails

[Krill]

Actually forget all that about it being challenging to work out the correct order.

Finish Mil Trad T60. Chop the settler T61 to settle on the forest T66. The builder finishes T63 to improve the honey t66 as well.

The settler chop used is the northern forest. The T62 move onto the fish and t63 improve it. T62 the southern builder chops the forest and t63 farms the maize. Long builds the water mill t60, settler t61 finishes the watermill t62 and then grows from t63 at 6fpt with Magnus and enough leeway to give plenty of tiles to MH and Mullet, and can happily work the bare plains hills for hammers due to the imminent housing issue. A theoretical granary would land T70. A galley would land T66. So there is a lot of flexibility with this.

[Krill]

Might update in a bit, but I just played the turn this morning wrong in so many ways it is hilarious (if you have no sense of humour). It doesn't really matter though. I forgot to account for the beaker reduction in HBR and now all timings are shot to hell (in a good way).

[Krill]

Oh this turn gets even better. I just realised that after fixing the policy card issue I actually made another mistake else where which actually makes the replayed position even worse than the original.

I shouldn't be allowed to play in these games.

[Krill]

I'm going to write this up in a bit more detail simply because this is a good example of where Civ 6 fails, and how much easier Civ 7 can fix the issue.

Documentation. That's it. Simply, documentation. Sid Meier is quoted as saying a game is a series of interesting choices.

But for a choice to be interesting, the player has to understand the consequence of the choice. In the UK there is actually a law about how people make choices. I raise this point to highlight the level of importance that making the information available is, when it comes to decision making.

The civilopedia in civ 6 is trash. T61, I open up the save and what do I see? Mil Trad had reduced to 40 culture and I have 44 invested, and it wasn't researched. Oh no, I thought, but then I look closer and I can still change cards for no cost? Why? I still don't know. Best guess is era change.

I've come into this game with an open mind, and there are still things that will never not annoy me. That damned Iron mine bullshit is one of them. This is just a reason to not micro to any real extent if you don't really know the rules.

So let us come up with a new plan: revolt into Discipline this turn (there's a barb I can hit twice, the only real alternative is Conscription for 2 gold. I'll take that trade), and into Colonization. Set culture to Mil Trad (get the excess culture out into PP fo no loss of time), build the settler this turn, chop it next turn, hit the barb for the second time, and change cards to MI (for yon galleys) and Urban Planning (for a total cost of 2 production I would gain 37 production into the settler.

The first mistake? I swapped into Discipline only (no idea why). Easy and quick mistake to fix with a reload. Second mistake? I didn't set Long to build a settler In other words UP would give me two more production than the "fixed" save. Whatever, I'll roll with it.

On reflection, part of the issue is playing the turn at a bad time. I had just got back home and was taking a break before restarting work but was distracted, but I don't think that detracts from the main point: if the rules are understood, you can make a decision and plan (and document the plan!) Then when it comes to play the turn, there is something to work from. Simply winging it doesn't work. If the rules aren't understood, the choices don't really matter.

[Krill]

The map generator hates me, but that's OK. I can deal with that, I was never in the running to win this game. It's just a reminder than a tight pangaea map should have had an aggressive pick (not that I realised it was a tight pangaea map when I made that pick). The bigger issue is my PC keeps on crashing and I'm struggling too complete the turn.

[Krill]

Turn 63

This is turning into a tradegy of errors on my part. Ah well, it's all a learning curve.




TAD is to the north west. That means I'm stuck in the middle with very little land. And greenline has settled a city first ring to his capital. When I was younger I'd be angry about such disrespect, now I just find it funny. I could have settled that city. In all honesty I might even have been able to hold it as Yongle in a dark age, but I don't think it would be great.

No, I have a plan, and that's play tight, get a tech edge then ruin someones day.

TAD has almost no military. 67 mil score and offered a DoF. I'd not have a problem with being friendly but I have zero land to work with so I actually need to settle the western city now. If TAD managed to snaffle that spotI'dI have nothing to do but get Magnus to the 4th promotion (-80% resource costs of units, hmmm) and play the barbarian. Actually that's probably the same plan but whatever.




I've redirected the settler over there. Now I know it's TAD, and I have the slinger, warrior and builder I can kinda make it work...but more than anything I want the extra horse. Ancestral Hall has limited value at this point...Warlords Throne is the only option.

[Krill]

Reflecting on how I got to this point I see a whole range of errors recently, and I'll get to them again, but I'm not sure how this start should have been played?

Stuck between the tundra and ocean, desert to the west and plains with no freshwater to the east, the only two city locations I can identify that fit with Yongle are the two Iv'e already identifed, unless I pushed right up against Korea.

If the first settler is delayed for scouting, then realistically the player meets Khmer and Korea much sooner, probably meets both by T20, but I'm not sure how much that helps. It speeds up the Writing eureka and the FT inspiration, but end of the day still need to get out a builder and settler. I'm not see options other than a straight "rush" scenario. Go AH first because the builder comes out late, then go Mining. The capital culture takes the horse first, but still want SAiling for the turtle. Likely have to give that up, but if the priorty is instead a quick Writing then still need to tech pottery. And still end up with the stupid Iron campus because there is no where else to put it except against a volcano.

No, I feel like the aggressive play was AH (blind luck in the horse)>Mining>Archery>BW and just pushed east hard. Maybe that would have been wiser? But it's the same problem, unless I fight an early war with Korea (into a tech disadvantage) and win it feels like a massive loss. It feels like if you do that and lose the retort is "Why didn't you play to Yongles strengths?"

All that said, reflecting on the last week I probably shouldn't have lost my head so much once I met greenline and saw the horse. OTOH, I think he has made a misplay because he could have rushed me off the face of the map (due to my incompetence) but now he is going to have a thorn in his side and he is stuck in the middle with lots to defend. I don't know if I should regret the walls and encampment build: Maybe the last 6-8 turns should have been played differently, and I should have placed the encampment, but then chopped a settler and rushed east now? But then I'd be fighting an uphill battle at a loyalty disadvantage.

You know maybe it wouldn't feel so bad if the little land I had wasn't actually ice?

[RefSteel]

Reflecting on how I got to this point I see a whole range of errors recently, and I'll get to them again, but I'm not sure how this start should have been played?

You know maybe it wouldn't feel so bad if the little land I had wasn't actually ice?

I don't know much about Civ6, but that certainly looks like a tough position to be in! I could imagine that some weird combination of civ6 mechanics might make it more playable than it looks to me, but if so, of course I don't know what it would be!

[Krill]

A lurker sighting, a veritable lurker sighting!

You should play in a civ 6 game Ref. It's actually an interesting game. I'm not sure if you read the Canadian exploits in PBEM18, but there is always something to work towards, unlike Civ 4.

I think the "weird" Civ 6 mechanics worked against this start in some respects, but were compounded by my skill issues. Loyalty and the X Age mechanics make it harder to forward settle (but not impossible! this is probably one of my mistakes), but not impossible. A simple guv'nor would have resolved alot of the trouble, but doesn't cover for the fact greenline has a 50% larger military (but I've only seen warriors and archers from him, maybe some of it are boats he can't use?) The problem all stems back to my poor scouting.

If I had scouted better in the early game I would have seen how close Korea was, I would have met Venice earlier, and I would have found TAD and not assumed the NW was safe expansion land. I would have focused on actually building a sufficient military (although the swap to Agoge was well timed and it worked). I probably needed to bite the bullet and get the pantheon earlier as well, rather than saving the era score for now. With proper deployment, rather than flailing at barbs, I could have pushed and settled the near Korean city, and set up a defensive line. All that effort for one extra city? It's a good city though.

The cost would have been delayed growth in the capital. With all other leaders this would have been a no brainer because of growth mechanics but I tunnel visioned on Yongle. That's why I'm trying to be rational: this isn't "the map screwed me", or complaints about randomness. I made decisions that at the moment look like mistakes. I'll be screwing with greenline for the rest of this game because I misjudged the actions he would take and I'm paying the price (that and he is rejecting all overtures at diplomacy, he does have significant impact on how I'm engaging with him).

There are ways to make tundra usable, and as Yongle I just need to get cities to size 10 for a massive +1b, +1c, +2g per pop. The problem is production, and available resources. But even on that, a strong capital with the 4th promotion on Magnus (already have 3) reduces resource costs by 80%, so there are ways to stay small and yet still be in a winnable position (well, maybe?)

[Krill]

Turn 68

Major turn. Not planned.




If I'd kept on scouting north at the start I would likely have found Preslav two turns after I turned back. So much for not going military early.

The quest is build a catapult. Possible but unlikely.





There was no chance of meeting Zanzibar earlier. FWIW, Venice was actually equidistant between Korea and China, but harder to approach for the Chinese starting position. I think it's fair to say that from a City State perspective the Chinese start was in a greater hole.

The quest is build an encampment, so I have no real opportunity to complete this, nor to interact with Zanzibar, so I'm at another disadvantage and need to hope someome else removes them form the game (unlikely unless Korea takes suzerain status and Chev or Whosit is a neighbour and dislikes that situation, and can actually do something about it).

This triggers the PP inspiration and completes it. I've spent time thinking what I was going to do with these three turns between finishing the galley and being able to start something else. Turns out that was a waste of time.




I don't quite like this, but here is my reasoning: Conscription saves me 4gpt, better than anything else and I have a gold starved position (I need harbours, but I need to find a natural wonder as I need the eureka from Astrology fo a Heroic Age). Diplomacy card is obvious I don't even have any envoys to use. Urban PLanning is greatest output, but Ilkum saves me enough hammers at Long to use Faith Lilja to complete a pantheon eot72 (with input from the third city) (changed up the micro for granary eot70, pantheon eot72, builder eot76). Then Construction is in, complete Games and Rec, and swap into Colonization to build settlers, and just try and bulldoze through Defensive Tactics.

I could have gone Drama and Poetry, but then I would need to build a wonder (likely Hanging Gardens) in MH and it throws everything off. Was considering Autocracy and Corvee to try and 7 turn it but I would need to build hte Campus at Long, and that takes me away from the settler builds I need.







TAD sent the DoF, I've accepted now. Trading Spice for Salt (to his advantage for a few turns but I will have Salt mined T72 and he knows what I was planning by retreating his warrior. That will make MH Ecstatic.





I've thought this through and Ancestral Hall, whilst helpful from a production perspective, doesn't help me play the game I need: Tight and focused on being ready to take part in a Greenline dog pile. I have bad fresh water locations and poor housing, this gives me a way to get cities to size 10 which is what I truly need, and the amenities for at least Happy growth modifiers, and possibly ecstatic.

The AC guv promo gives me Pingala in MH, and then the DT title gives him the beaker or culture boost. After the AC goes down, Pingala should keep MH at Ecstatic until size 10 (after the 5 turn installation period). I will likely Lilja growth the rest of the way, it's essentially a wonder v. immense yields.




My yields are bad, but there is light. 12 era points from an Heroic Age, can get a further 1 for pantheon, 4 eurekas (Astrology - get lucky with the map, Machinery - build 1 more archer, Apprenticeship - 1 more mine after salt, Mass production - Lumber mill), 4 for great wall segment leaving just 3 remaining points to find.