[SPOILER] Darius of Ottomans - Vets - Krill

[pocketbeetle]

Clearing out the hill still definitely not an option?

[MWIN]

Thanks for the screen shots...

[Krill]

It's an option, I'm just wondering if it is worth while prior to Jans. Unless Cyneheard walks in with a pretty large stack the city should be fine, and the only real benefit to clearing out the hill is I can hook up the corn more easily. I'm considering how I would hook up the corn without touching the hill. If I can do that, then I'm just going to leave the hill.

I'm in OR, I have Libs, Theatres, GT, Unis and Oxford, Markets...I have shit I could do with building. Court houses too, I suppose. 7 turns to the GS, restarted research this turn, CS due eot t97 with decent overflow...

That and Lb on LB warfare with HA and cats supporting is a little bit dumb...oh, and before I forget, I need to push out another settler then I'll be finished for a bit. Darrell took back the top land area and is pretty close to taking back top pop, which I can't be having, now, can I?

If I were to keep slaving to a minimum for the next 7 turns (which I should do if I'm going to bulb Edu), then I expect that I could reach about 400 base bpt, which means Lib around t105? Only problem is that would be for Nationalism, I want PP (could research there by t105 I think).

Decisions decisions...and I want GP asap, Jans make any attack really stupid. I can't push forward until Cannons though.

[Krill]

However, if I were to follow some simple advice, I'd concentrate on building the best tech rate I could. That would mean beeline to Paper and reassess PP v Edu.

[Krill]

CS with 2 prereqs took 2 turns, Paper with 1 prereq will take 1 turn. That leaves me 4 turns until the GS pops, which would leave me with 1 turn for Edu research, 1 turn for Philo research, and 1 turn saving gold, which would be 2 turns worth of max research. Lib I should be able to get to a 2 turn tech, with overflow from Philo research (1 turn researching edu at max means I would waste a bit of the bulb). Alphabet and Machinery should be a further 2 turns research, which means Lib around...t107? Maybe t106. We'll see. I need to figure out overflow patterns for safety.

That is 10 turns from CS to Lib with 1 bulb on quick, researching an additional 6 techs going for PP. SANCTA did it in 12 turns on normal speed worth 2 bulbs and a funder/researcher pair, and a golden age, for Nationalism on Normal, not researching Alpha or Machinery but picking up Compass instead. This might actually be better if I can pull it off.

[Krill]

You know, PP is a dumb tech, it being 150 beakers less than Nationalism which gives Taj.

Change of plans, teched Paper this turn, Education due in 4, Philo due in 1, then Lib in about 2 or 3 while building wealth. Use the GS for an Academy, or save for a golden age? Lib due t105/6.

If Philo falls, run 3 artist/turns in the GS city to get it 2 turns sooner, tech Philo in 2, bulb Edu and tech it in 1 with overflow into Lib, due in 2 if my guestimates are right...Lib due t103.

Then tech to PP...

Also, t98, score 1099, -95gpt, 360ish bpt. Getting there...oh, and borders are about perfect for defence on both sides of my empire, and last real city will get founded next turn for rice and crabs. I'm just a little bored because, well, I can't see any shit coming my way atm. Although, famous last words, Cyneheard is probably about to grab Lib t102...

[Krill]

Darrell: Engineering in 5 at Breakeven, +12 gpt, 56g in bank
Cyneheard: Calendar in 5 at Breakeven (after Sailing), +5gpt, 142g (so finished Sailing at minimum bpt, Calendar is either placeholder or misdirection on his part)
Kylearan: Machinery in 1 at deficit spend, 152g in bank
Whosit: Fued in 1 at Breakeven, +6 gpt, 42g in bank
sunrise: finished Machinery last turn at deficit, 200g in bank

Last turn I ran breakeven espionage on sunrise and Cyneheard to get research vis. This turn I ran 90% espionage and 10% tech into Philo and got research vis on everyone. I'm fairly confident I can get Lib now...only persons who could have Guilds are Darrell and Cyneheard, and I only care about the latter. Still have 2 turns of 100% tech to use, and 2 turns until GS arrives, and not really worried about someone running max espionage on me for a couple of turns. Normally I loathe running the espionage slider, but when you only have to run it for 2 turns to find out what everyone is doing, in a game with no diplomacy or graphs and very few ways of finding out what tech units people have, eh, I can live with the expenditure.

Lib t106 for Nat? I just played t100.

Oh, and just finished SP in the front city next to sunrise as well. I'd rather have that than ToA...

[Krill]

OK. I know sunrise, Cyneheard and Darrell have CS because they revolted to Bureaucracy. I'm the only person running Fued, andI can't remember much about Whosit, (and frankly I don't really care because he is bottom of the score rank and researching Fued, so he isn't a threat to me at all).

That leaves: Who has Music (and hence Lit or Drama). No one has Philo yet. I can't tell anyone has Education either, so the only other point is Machinery/Guilds. Cyneheard, sunrise, Darrell have Machinery. I don't, and again, Whosit doesn't matter. He shouldn't have Machinery if he doesn't have Fued and he got Monarchy about 40 turns ago. Kylearan is described above.

So that means, what techs are missing? IIRC, Darrell hasn't revolted to HR, so that means he has gone heavy on HA/cats to defend himself or is running a bluff. sunrise, I dunno, but he should have Fued. Cyneheard had Fued before me and should be the main tech competitor, so could very easily have Guilds, and knights are great if your northern neighbour doesn't have Fued yet, nor pikes. You don't even need cats to attack and win. Kylearan/Whosit lack knights from guilds, and possible one preceeding tech.

Er...could Cyneheard be in the middle of taking out Whosit? God I hope not.

But with the techs that everyone is researching, I can't see why any of them would have Paper, Drama and 2 turns from a GS to bulb with, when they are missing Calendar, Fued and then decide to tech Machinery (which is a fools errand unless you go for Guilds/Eng IMO).

So, sunrise, Whosit, Kylearan, Darrell...sorry guys, but I should get to Lib before you. Cyneheard is the main competitor, and he might dawdle on Calendar for a short while. He knows that he needs 300 ep on me (note: he knows we need 300 ep against one another to have visibility both ways. I can afford that easier than him, but he ran the espionage slider last turn so that will affect his research, so don't trust that 5 turn on calendar number above). He has Construction, Machinery, Fued, CS becuase I see cats, maces, LB. I haven't seen any HA though, so don't know if he has HBR yet. Plus unknown on Guilds. But if he were going to go for them, he'd get them before he went for Calendar.

So, what does he lack that I have? Maybe Drama/Aesthetics, and Calendar, plus hopefully Paper. I lack Machinery/Guilds.

This might actually be a close race.

[Krill]

Kylearan: Guilds in 3, deficit, 71g
Whosit: Guilds in 4, deficit, 30g
Darrell: Engineering in 3, deficit, 45g
sunrise: unknown tech, deficit, 83g
Cyneheard: unknown tech, deficit, 43g

Cyneheard ran espionage on me last turn to see my tech, so he knows I can research Philo, and it was dur in 10 turns and that I was deficit spending. Not that big a deal, really, because he doesn't know my research capabilities. I just finished the GS this turn (risked the 1 turn of artist), and will finish Lib eot t105 for either Nationalism or Gunpowder depending on need. I am making about 390 bpt before modifiers, and will bulb/finish Education next turn, Education the turn after that and then tech Lib at 100% for 2 turns, and build wealth for the last turn where needed to complete Lib in 3.

That should leave everyone with a window to stack knights and attack me before I can either draft Jans of 5 turns (Nat), or no window if I chose to slave them (GP)

Or I could go balls out and research to GP via guilds and wait another 5 or so turns...

PS. I'll go back and do a turn 100 update once I get a new copy of BtS so I can write it all out on my desktop instead of having to take the screenshots n my slower laptop. There isn;t much to see other than blanket cottages.

[Krill]

t102, 400 base bpt at max without Bureaucracy or Academy. OU due in 15 turns. 90% confident I can get Lib now, Philo hasn't fallen yet, but sunrises' research has been hidden for the past 2 turns. He could feasibly bulb Edu/Philo, but as he has machinery he can't bulb Lib so I should be safe there.

More interesting point is that I managed to get cultural control over the ourter ring of Cyneheards front city so can now see his army:



Worried? Not really, because Cyneheard can't attack me without having to fear a fastmover reprisal at Dreadfort so needs a good stack of defensive units (ie 4+ LB and a couple of mace/spears) and enough units to take out Trample Un'Foot, which I can't see in that picture.

And if I promote alll my HA to F1/F2, and hit with my cats first, I should be able to at least take out all of his cats, forcing him to attack G2 LB in a 50% city, on a hill. I wouldn't want to do that short of cannons with the way this game is balanced atm. And I will get to cannons before Cyneheard, even ignoring Lib.

Also, 6 player game, and I think I've developed my cities fairly well. I've not slaved them much in the past 7 turns due to trying to build up pop for the lightbulb into Edu.



So, now the dilemma. I'm not sandbagging Lib, not after PBEM5B. Nationalism is hte best Tech I can take, and I could do with Taj. I don't have Marble, but I really don't care: I have one crappy hammer city that I can build Taj in in about 18 turns, and I should have enough of a lead that I make it. So I'm left with a decision about what civics to use. Free Speech would be hilarious to use, but I'm going to use it anyway and try to get to Kremlin for rush buy goodness, so the only decision is when to use it. It wouldn't be worth an awful lot, maybe 20, 30 g/bpt with multipliers, in 20 turns? In 30 turns though, ie at the end of a Taj GA, could easily be worth 100 bpt with multipliers.

The smart money would be to revolt to NH IMO, and not draft much, just use it asa deterant. Maybe draft a couple Jans to make it visible though. But I still want to use OR because I need to get buildings down. I'd love to use US because frankly I don't need HR at alland I'm focussing on cottages, not gpp so rep is out as well. Democracy would be nice...but I'm going to go Merc at some point, right? And what about Emancipation if I'm going to ignore SP, to get cottages up asap to fit in with US/FS? Sure, buy missionaries and I can even use Theocracy later on.

So, lets see. I'll swap to NH when I banking for another swap to Merc. That means after Lib I need to go Alpha>Machinery>(PP?)>Guilds>Banking, but also need to fit in GP somewhere there. But Machinery is known by everyone else, Cyneheard (a guess but only one that fits IMO), Whosit, Kylearan and maybe sunrise will know Guilds by the time I come to tech them, so Machinery is a 1 turn tech with like 30 beakers overflow now, and Guilds should be a 1 turns tech with overflow from Alphabet...so save gold t106, t107, research Guilds by t110? GP would then be a 2 turn tech itself at max...Banking would be a 2 turn tech at breakeven fairly easily.

Hmmm. Fun times.