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Quote:I can't imagine us sitting on Currency + Priesthood and NOT teching CoL.
You don't know if you need IW, HBR or Construction for military purposes and that does fit in easily between Priesthood and Currency. Myst is going to be necessary to pop borders for Mehmed whatever happens, leaving about 250 adjusted beakers for Priesthood and Meditation. Code of Laws is 613. And Oracle can get there earlier than Currency is available to research considering 2 IND leaders.
Quote:However, I don't think there's any question that Sumeria is more useful in the hands of Mehmed than Lizzie.
I question it. You're giving up strategic flexibility for a few saved hammers.
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(March 5th, 2013, 16:17)Krill Wrote: I question it. You're giving up strategic flexibility for a few saved hammers.
Giving up strategic flexibility?!
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Because you've decided on Lizzie getting an early Academy, you've focused everything on keeping the slider high for her. That means that she can't expand horizontally past 3-4 cities (and most of those settlers have to come from Mehmed) through any means until you get CoL, and there isn't any way to increase the happy cap in that tech plan. Lizzie is going to max out on bpt pretty early but there is no way to expand that without relying on this being a happy rich map. Giving her Ziggaruts gives her the flexibility to get those few extra cities to keep on growing cottages and improving the team tech rate.
Giving Lizzie Sumeria means that you have the flexibility to not get CoL immediately, and I've already said I don't think you can rely on CoL after Currency. If you give Sumeria to Mehmed you will flatline the tech rate in the mid game if you don't get a quick CoL, or you will not be able to keep 100% tech on Lizzie.
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I keep agreeing with the last person who posted here. 
The risk of a low happy cap is a good point, a low happy map is long overdue on RB, and I would think Plako is aware of this.
I have to run.
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(March 5th, 2013, 16:52)novice Wrote: I keep agreeing with the last person who posted here.
The risk of a low happy cap is a good point, a low happy map is long overdue on RB, and I would think Plako is aware of this.
Well, we'll be claiming twice the land of a normal game, so maybe more possible happy resources faster (we can funnel them to wherever we want). There's already gems, for one.
I don't see how building a Corthouse or Ziggurat for Lizzie or Mehmed makes any difference when it comes to tech rate after Currency. It doesn't matter where the gold is saved, it'll be used to push Lizzie's research either way.
There are some valid points brought in by Krill, but I fail to see how a lot of them relate to which leader gets which Civ. I still don't see why we would build Ziggurats in Lizzie's cities, when we are worried about culture, science and happiness before them. Meanwhile, I don't see what we'll be building in Mehmed's land so that we can't afford to build Ziggurats.
In an ideal situation, I can see Ziggurats being better on Lizzie, but I don't think we have that situation and we are going to end up not building them.
Regarding CoL, I'm not entirely certain we can be first to that, mostly because we don't want to (HRE Darius and two IND civs probably want it more). So, it's a nice thing that we can cut maintenance earlier without having to rely on teching it. Either way, maybe we won't go to the Priesthood -> CoL route for a long time, so that when we reach it, Lizzie would be wanting some courthouses up.
Hm... I'll continue my thoughts later...
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(March 5th, 2013, 16:49)Krill Wrote: Because you've decided on Lizzie getting an early Academy, you've focused everything on keeping the slider high for her. That means that she can't expand horizontally past 3-4 cities (and most of those settlers have to come from Mehmed) through any means until you get CoL, and there isn't any way to increase the happy cap in that tech plan. Lizzie is going to max out on bpt pretty early but there is no way to expand that without relying on this being a happy rich map. Giving her Ziggaruts gives her the flexibility to get those few extra cities to keep on growing cottages and improving the team tech rate.
Giving Lizzie Sumeria means that you have the flexibility to not get CoL immediately, and I've already said I don't think you can rely on CoL after Currency. If you give Sumeria to Mehmed you will flatline the tech rate in the mid game if you don't get a quick CoL, or you will not be able to keep 100% tech on Lizzie.
I don't understand your logic. Suppose we don't tech CoL fast. Ziggurats in the hand of Mehmed will surely save more gold faster than Ziggurats in the hand of Elizabeth. And that gold is transferable via currency.
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But the bottleneck is beaker production. Giving Mehmed Zigs means he will get large jumps in gpt as they complete after "tanking" his economy to plant the cities, but to keep the slider at 100% Lizzie can't expand until those jumps occur, delaying the beaker production but eating up that gold immediately.
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(March 5th, 2013, 17:16)Krill Wrote: But the bottleneck is beaker production. Giving Mehmed Zigs means he will get large jumps in gpt as they complete after "tanking" his economy to plant the cities, but to keep the slider at 100% Lizzie can't expand until those jumps occur, delaying the beaker production but eating up that gold immediately.
Your argument is that Lizzie could sync up Ziggurat builds with new cities, but Mehmed couldn't? Even if that made sense I don't think it would matter. We aren't going to try to keep gold income minus expenses at exactly zero. It can oscillate up and down, and we'll want to keep a slush fund.
March 5th, 2013, 17:54
(This post was last modified: March 5th, 2013, 17:54 by SevenSpirits.)
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Regarding civ colors, I was thinking Rome color for Rome, and India color for Sumeria. My criteria for picking these:
* Close to original civ colors (or at least one of them) so other teams have an easier time telling who is which civ.
* Close to each other in color spectrum so it's clearer we're a team.
* Distinguishable from each other so we can easily tell who is controlling which tile where our borders meet.
Because of the last point I thought to substitute one of the dark purples out for a light one. Opinions?
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(March 5th, 2013, 17:54)SevenSpirits Wrote: Regarding civ colors, I was thinking Rome color for Rome, and India color for Sumeria. My criteria for picking these:
* Close to original civ colors (or at least one of them) so other teams have an easier time telling who is which civ.
* Close to each other in color spectrum so it's clearer we're a team.
* Distinguishable from each other so we can easily tell who is controlling which tile where our borders meet.
Because of the last point I thought to substitute one of the dark purples out for a light one. Opinions?
Agreed. Rome + Sumeria orginal colors would be confusing.
P.S.: Black and White looks better. 
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