[SPOILERS] Back to Basic - Mardoc plays Augustus of China

[Mikehendi]

Thank you for writing and posting so many pictures, Mardoc! I am trying to learn how to do Civ4 MP and you are the only one who posts in this PBEM. It looks like you are in very good shape, I think that I have picked up a lot from this game.

Let me make one suggestion that may or may not help as thanks. If you can get a road on the hill NE of Durkon then you can put horse archers or chariots on the cow resource two north of Durkon and hit the Twinkletoes city. He can't see anything on that cow tile from his culture. I don't know if that helps but it might be useful. I'm enjoying your writing a lot.

[Mardoc]

Thank you for writing and posting so many pictures, Mardoc! I am trying to learn how to do Civ4 MP and you are the only one who posts in this PBEM. It looks like you are in very good shape, I think that I have picked up a lot from this game

Oh, dear. I mostly have played the civ mod Fall from Heaven II - hence why HidingKneel and I are discussing basic concepts like whipping and chopping. I think I'm in decent shape, and some of the skills transfer, but I'm hardly a great example to learn from . I only know what I'm doing in theory, from reading other players' reports on BtS.

This game is underreported mainly because it's a casual game between players who are, ahem, not the best at RB. Myself definitely included in the 'not top tier' category . None of us are really bad players, but I don't know that you should be looking to pattern yourself after people at our level.

If you want recommendations on reading better players...hmm. I'd probably read some of the pitbosses. PB15 is the ongoing one with the highest average player quality at the moment, although it's also the RBMod so might be slightly misleading. Any of those players' older reports are definitely worth reading, though. If you want more suggestions, we can brainstorm for you, but there's a lot out there to read.

Oh! One more note, on RB etiquette. You haven't done anything wrong yet, but someone should mention this: Lurkers are absolutely forbidden from passing on spoiler information from one thread to another. It's the only way we can keep everyone willing to report their plans and progress. This means you can only give advice if you choose to be a dedicated lurker: that is, if you only read the thread of the person you're talking to for that particular game and hence have no spoiler information. If you read more than one thread, you have to stick to vague comments like rules mechanics, naming schemes, or else post your thoughts in the Lurker thread. You're ok here because I'm the only one really reporting, but once you move on to other games, be cautious.

Let me make one suggestion that may or may not help as thanks. If you can get a road on the hill NE of Durkon then you can put horse archers or chariots on the cow resource two north of Durkon and hit the Twinkletoes city. He can't see anything on that cow tile from his culture. I don't know if that helps but it might be useful. I'm enjoying your writing a lot.

Hmm. Seems plausible, depending on timing. At the moment all my workers are busy to the west, chopping forests. I'm not sure that I'll be able to safely bring any east until I can kill Twinkletoes' field army. But maybe if he goes after Belkar I could afford to park a spear on the hill and road it. I need to get the cow hooked up anyway, so it's not like those would be wasted worker turns even if the attack doesn't work out.

At the moment I'm thinking I'd rather aim for a decisive battle against his army than a sneak attack against his city, though. It won't matter if he sees me coming if I bring a steamroller Your suggestion would fit better if we were currently at peace, I think.

Random notes:

Twinkle really ought to either move his stack north again, stick a spear or archer into Gergovia, or cut the stone road (really he ought to have pillaged the road last turn before leaving it, but I guess he hoped to take the tile culturally). In the unlikely event he doesn't do one of those, my chariot has about 70% odds to take Gergovia next turn. I wish I could keep it, that's a pretty good city, but I can't get reinforcements there, so if I take it I'll burn it. That would get me to a 6:4 city lead.

In five turns, I ought to have four HA from Roy, 1 from Elan, 1 from Vaarsuvius, and 1 from Haley, at minimum. Durkon and Belkar will be of strictly limited value, I'm just hoping to get a garrison unit or two from them to maintain stalemate. If I'm aggressive with my whips and chops, I might be able to get an extra couple HA from the periphery. I'm debating if I should - maybe I shouldn't abuse Vaar and Haley for low promo HA, and instead use them for my first few catapults.

Take a turn or two for positioning, and 8 HA (half with 2 promos) plus my current army ought to be able to wipe the invasion force pretty easily. Then it'll be a matter of blitzing east. Only thing that saves his field force is if TT either retreats or brings in massive reinforcements, ideally spears. I'm hoping he at least wants to take a look at Belkar's defenses first, though.

[Mardoc]

Although, if you want to stick around and learn with us, Mikehendi, that could be fun, too. I had it pointed out to me that the topmost players may assume audience knowledge that I won't.

And you might be able to learn from my mistakes, too

[Commodore]

Oh! On the subject of blind spots coming from FFH...Great General points! You are Imp, which means +100% point generation...how many do you have from your earlier skirmishes? It is an additional +100% for fighting in your own borders, so assuming you have at least 6 already, you only need 8xp to spawn a GG fighting in your pink lands.

[Mardoc]

Oh! On the subject of blind spots coming from FFH...Great General points! You are Imp, which means +100% point generation...how many do you have from your earlier skirmishes? It is an additional +100% for fighting in your own borders, so assuming you have at least 6 already, you only need 8xp to spawn a GG fighting in your pink lands.

Um...probably about 3. GG points are equal to XP gained through combat, right? Both fights were outside my borders, I know the spear got 2 XP and the axe only got 1. I killed a barb or two, as well, I think.

Still, that suggests that TT's stack will be worth a GG. What's the best use for one at this point in the game?

[Commodore]

Normally, equal to XP gained in combat. So doubled by Imp. Tripled by Imp inside your own borders. TT's stack, hell, the first three-four combats won should net you the GG.

Settling a GG this early is best...unless there is a tactical need for him. Hard to generalize.

[Krill]

I thought IMP was just +100% for everything, and that the GW was +100% for battles in your own borders.

[Mardoc]

I thought IMP was just +100% for everything, and that the GW was +100% for battles in your own borders.

CFC claims that its:
+100% for Imp, anywhere
+100% for anyone fighting inside borders
+100% for Great Wall fighting inside borders

So I should get triple points for now, and quadruple if I ever manage to build the Wall, but only for battles at home. Double for fights outside China.

I found this just in the forum, though, not in the reference section, so I won't bet the farm on it. Of course I can test during the upcoming war .
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=425755

[Mikehendi]

You are a newcomer to BtS Civ4? You could have fooled me. It seems like you are beating the other players handily in this game, and that is not coming from reading other threads because no one else has posted anything. I thought that you were a very experienced player because you had 7000 posts or something like that. In any case, then I will continue reading and trying to learn alongside the players in this game.

What do people do with Great Generals in MP games? I am used to merging inside a city or using for a Medic 3 unit to get fast healing. I'm sure that there are more uses that I haven't thought about.

[Mardoc]

You are a newcomer to BtS Civ4? You could have fooled me.

Maybe the best way to put is that I'm rusty. Very rusty. Also I talk a lot I may have learned some from the others around here, it's possible.

We've got a lot more going on here than just BtS, though. Mods, forum games, Master of Orion, League of Legends, all are busy areas of the forum. I've dabbled in most of them.

I'm probably winning this game right now, yes - but most likely that's luck in having the best capital. Won't know until later, but I doubt this performance is skill. The map wasn't balanced at all.

What do people do with Great Generals in MP games? I am used to merging inside a city or using for a Medic 3 unit to get fast healing. I'm sure that there are more uses that I haven't thought about.

Those are most common, I think. One alternate is to dump all the XP onto a good unit to get a promotion that will surprise your opponent: Commando in the late game to raze a backline city, or Morale to be able to attack after landing from a boat. Or just to buff a whole stack right before combat, to swing the results. Change ten combats from 50-50 to 70-30 odds, and you'll definitely win the battle; maybe the war.

Here's what Twinkle did: moved his stack south, with his chariot out front probing for weakness. I reacted...in a measured fashion. Trying to keep as much of my army hidden as I can.

That new spear does mean Gergovia stands, for now.



At end of turn I got research visibility on him I'm not quite as far ahead on research as I thought, but I'm still apparently ahead. And both researching catapults does rather imply this will be a serious war. Means I need to keep pushing forward at maximum speed, to get some progress before it becomes a question of production.



Speaking of promotion, I've got before EOT demos:


And after. Note that my Power is going up rather fast, and my GNP is no longer particularly competitive. Gotta win this war.

Also, ahem, for HK: note that my production according to demographics is 40 hpt. Between chopping and whipping, I produced this turn 3x 50 hammer Horse Archers, a 25 hammer archer, and another 20 hammers into partial units. Granted most of those had a little bit of real production in to drop the whip penalty. Call it 200 hammers of real production. Five times what the demos say! This is why you have to be careful about trusting the demos.