Civilization 5 Announced

[MJW (ya that one)]

Look at starcraft two... You should say TBS game and I would see your point very likely correct.

I don't think "tangentally" counts.

The civ5 and civ4 videos are prerendered. You computor strength does not matter. It is like watching a youtube video. That is why I would be harsh on both the intros but no-one cares about the civ5 one. Firaxis had access to the best computors to make the introductions. I think the reason the young guy looks like Jon kind of is they both have very big noises.

[Sareln]

I think the reason the young guy looks like Jon kind of is they both have very big noises.

That last sentence there is just needlessly cruel. It doesn't add much of anything to your point, and it just rags on a guy whom I'm sure has seen enough ragging and rage to last him a lifetime at this point. Yes he was lead design on a game we all had high hopes for that didn't perform, that doesn't mean you need to beat on him every time the game comes up.

[T-hawk]

I think MJW meant big noses. Which isn't much of a ragging past second grade or so.

[luddite]

I think MJW meant big noses. Which isn't much of a ragging past second grade or so.

Well... actually it reads as being extremely anti-Semitic. I'm guessing he didn't mean it that way, though.

[Sareln]

I think MJW meant big noses. Which isn't much of a ragging past second grade or so.

That's how I read it, yes, but my point was more that we can discuss CIV V w/out turning it into a hatefest on Jon.

[sunrise089]

Well... actually it reads as being extremely anti-Semitic. I'm guessing he didn't mean it that way, though.

Really? What am I missing? I'm not trying to make a "I'm not racist but [insert racial stereotype]" defense, but are we to the point of assuming a crack on nose size is automatically anti-Semitic? Or, is John/person in video actually Jewish?

That's how I read it, yes, but my point was more that we can discuss CIV V w/out turning it into a hatefest on Jon.

Now lets not get carried away!

We should probably only hate on him for things he can control though. Like charging me $50 for his product and keeping a straight face. Or the Ottoman unique ability

[Nicolae Carpathia]

I've always thought a good compromise between Civ4's empire management/race for turn advantage and Civ5's semi-deterministic combat was the use of sub-tiles. For instance, each citizen tile that can be improved can get broken down into 4, 6 or 9 sub-tiles (depending if you're using squares or hexes). Add in things like zone of control, cover-fire, and group-select-move and you might potentially have all the best bits of Civ4 and some of the few clever ideas that Civ5 had.

[Krill]

There hasn't been a proper successor to Civ 4 because Civ 4 is already perfect and can't be superseded.

Seriously, Civ 4 really has raised the bar so high that it may be impossible to ever duplicate. Firaxis had the resources and time for a massive amount of testing and feedback before the release, on a scale that may literally never happen again in a commercial game. Deep strategy games of the future will come from labor-of-love creators, like Dwarf Fortress and Minecraft, not commercial studios.

I don't want to have mastered hte perfect TBS game

One of us needs to win the lottery and buy the CIV franchise.

[luddite]

Really? What am I missing? I'm not trying to make a "I'm not racist but [insert racial stereotype]" defense, but are we to the point of assuming a crack on nose size is automatically anti-Semitic? Or, is John/person in video actually Jewish?

I have no idea about John Shafer's background, or anyone else involved. And I'm sure MJW didn't mean it that way, but some people do make jokes about nose size to imply that there's a Jewish conspiracy, especially in the context of banks. I just wanted to warn him to be a little careful about how he says that.

[antisocialmunky]

I've always thought a good compromise between Civ4's empire management/race for turn advantage and Civ5's semi-deterministic combat was the use of sub-tiles. For instance, each citizen tile that can be improved can get broken down into 4, 6 or 9 sub-tiles (depending if you're using squares or hexes). Add in things like zone of control, cover-fire, and group-select-move and you might potentially have all the best bits of Civ4 and some of the few clever ideas that Civ5 had.

The way I see it, is you want to do some sort of ICS-like thing for armies (where multiple small armiss are more favorable than a single SOD). For me this would be a flat bonus like 5% strength is spread over all units in a stack (20 units = .5% bonus per unit in the stack). This is increased via techs like writing(written orders) or music (military drill) or something. Thus smaller stacks are more hammer efficient than a single big one but must remain spread out to get the maximum bonus to every unit.

The 1 upt Civ5 approach has issues that other games in the genre haven't really figured out like the absolute traffic jam/stupidity of choke points. You want choke points to be abuseable but not in a complete cluster attrition fail jam thing.