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Okay so I had a few thoughts on how to best "rate" our opponents. I have never been entirely comfortable with talking too much smack about fellow civ players, especially since I don't consider myself to be all that good.
So after thinking about things, I decided to just rate my opinions on the civ / leader picks in 3 posts, ranking them as Weak, Middle, Strong, on the criteria of Traits, UB/UU, and Starting Techs. Then I'll make a separate post to try and take any knowledge on the individual players and decide if that there is any data to move people up or down based on their civ "skills" or "rep"
In a sense though, you have to think that a person's civ / leader picks should at least correlate somewhat with their overall skill. Like sunrise was talking about the other day (abstracting what he actually said), either [someone that has picked a bad civ and/or leader] has come up with some brand new way to leverage his pick that we've all missed (and by 2011 we're all pretty good at BtS, especially considering all the PB and PBEM and MP play that various folks have done), or he's just not good. At least speaking generally...
And what follows is my own opinions. I'd be intereted in sunrise's thoughts too from more of a MP perspective if I missed anything he would rate important.
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Third Tier - the not so good picks- 9. Mackoti / Ioan76 - Roosevelt (Ind / Org) of Netherlands (East Indiaman, Dike, Fishing / Agriculture)
It's hard to fault the pick of Roosevelt TOO much, since it was the 20th selection, but that was his own fault for picking Civ first. And while the Dutch are a good civ, especially if there's a lot of water (and we were warned that there would be a decent amount on this map), at pick #1 I think that's a bit of a reach. There were plenty of decent civs around and the dropoff from the top 2-4 leaders to the rest was much more dramatic IMO. Starting techs are middle of the pack.
- 8. WarlordDr - Washington (Chm / Exp) of Greece (Phalanx, Odeon, Fishing / Hunting)
At pick 8 (though 6th among leaders), Washington was a decent choice but not spectacular (I'd have preferred Louis or Asoka). Greece at 5th civ though was pretty bad. Decent UU, combining (sort of) an axe and a spear, crappy UB and the worst 2 starting techs.
- 7. Adlain - Wang Kon (Pro / Fin) of Arabia (Camel Archer, Madrassa, Mysticism / Wheel)
Adlain is close to being in the "middle" of choices, but having 9 opponents "forced" me to divide folks into 3 groups of 3. Hard to say what the effects of being the only financial civ will be. I think Financial isn't ALL that, though in a NTT game there's no doubt that it's the best. Enough to make up for getting Protective? I'm not sure. My big quibble is, given that you've taken Protective, I'd have thought you'd want a civ with an archery or gunpowder UU. It's possible that he chose Arabia since NOBODY else starts with Mysticism, which is valid. I did a check to see if there were better civs that start with Mysticism, but most of them are either a) banned (HRE, India, Inca) or b) start with Myst and Hunting (Aztec, Celts). Personally I'd prefer Korea or Spain than Arabia but not a huge difference.
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Second Tier - the pack- 6. Nakor / Gaspar - Asoka (Spi / Org) of Vikings (Berserker, Trading Post, Fishing / Hunting)
For some reason I kept thinking of Asoka when we were coming up with leader picks. He doesn't have the greatest traits but I'm a sucker for a) spiritual and b) cheap courthouses). Note that he does also get cheap trading posts), but other than that I'm not too blown away by the Vikings (reminder to self - delete this paragraph if we get berserked). Worst starting techs.
- 5. Lord Parkin - De Gaulle (Chm / Ind) of Egypt (War Chariot, Obelisk, Agriculture / Wheel)
Vague promises of an underlying strategy from forum posts, which could be Stonehenge (Ind plus Chm for extra early happy) or a WC rush (especially given his starting techs). Luckily we'll be able to easily tell whether his first tech is Mysticism or Animal Husbandry. We may need to team up with him and offer him some 2 move "escorts" if he does decide to WC rush. After all, it beats him coming OUR way!!
- 4. Plako - Catherine (Cre / Imp) of China (Chokonu, Pavillion, Agriculture / Mining)
Solid picks, especially China at 9th civ pick. Good starting techs allow you to go for either AH or BW out of the gate and decent UU (UB stinks but all the civs with great choices for everything are banned, ya know).
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First Tier - the contenders
Not a HUGE amount of differentiation between these 3 picks (and even Plako's) but here's a stab.
- 3. Locke / Cervantes - Isabella (Spi / Exp) of England (Redcoat, Stock Exchange, Fishing / Mining)
Isabella was IMO the #1 leader pick and to snag her at pick #4 is a coup for sure. England is a solid civ and one of the ones that we were considering (though we were intentionally targeting gunpowder for our Agg pick). Redcoats aren't quite as powerful as they used to be, but especially in a MP game when often times a drafted rifle war is a good idea, certainly not bad. Middle of the road starting techs.
- 2. Luddite / Atlas1998 - Bismark (Exp / Ind) of Sumeria (Vulture, Ziggurat, Agriculture / Wheel)
Bismark is another of our top picks though we didn't really consider him due to having just played him in PB3 (RBP3? RBPB3?  ). And I like Sumeria too - decent (though not great) UU and UB and the best starting techs. Solid all the way around
- 1. SleepingMoogle - Louis (Cre / Ind) of Babylon (Bowman, Garden, Agriculture / Wheel)
We really considered Louis hard as you saw, so definitely great to take him on the turn of the snake pick. Babylon is okay - one thing I like is that the bowman, like the skirmisher, make it hard to rush you - which is always nice in one of these MP games. It's all well and good to have a great mid-game strategy - but it doesn't do much if you are eliminated early on (cough, cough, PB2 ). Gardens not that great (though he does get it cheap being Cre), and the best starting techs.
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I intentionally did not rate us (errr I mean sunrise), since you've already heard our thoughts on why we picked who we did. And it's a bit unfair to use our own "rating" system to also rate ourselves - of course we'll score very high, and perhaps unfairly.
It's similar to when I would "rank" the drafts of my fantasy football league after we drafted, using the metrics that I used for my own draft. Of course I showed up first, because when I'm doing my draft, I'm intentionally drafting players who score high in that metric.
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sunrise089 Wrote:I guess I'm missing the joke, but I don't really appreciate threads I make on this board having their titles changed to something I explicitly criticized.
Consistency in the 2nd and 3rd pitboss thread titled makes the scheme pretty clear, as does logic (the word is "Pitboss" not "Pit Boss." That said, I had no interest in asking someone with mod powers to change the other thread titles. I wish I had received the same courtesy.
Actually I didn't ask for the thread name to be changed...
Current games (All): RtR: PB83
Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71 PB80. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6: PBEM22 PBEM23Games ded lurked: PB18
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Krill Wrote:Actually I didn't ask for the thread name to be changed...
Operation Get Krill to post in our thread and artificially inflate our post count.... CHECK!
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regoarrarr Wrote:Operation Get Krill to post in our thread and artificially inflate our post count.... CHECK! After 7 posts in a row from Rego I'm not sure that baiting Krill to post in the thread is strictly necessary! Anyway, I'm rooting for Sunrise and his dedicated lurker / spam poster:neenernee
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Cort Wrote:After 7 posts in a row from Rego I'm not sure that baiting Krill to post in the thread is strictly necessary! Anyway, I'm rooting for Sunrise and his dedicated lurker / spam poster:neenernee
I'm kind of surprised that nobody commented on my "rankings" though maybe it generated some posts in the lurker thread...
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So wait, let me get this straight. Your choices were Shaka or Louis, and then Zulu or France.
So in the end you took Shaka of Zulu, but you could have ended up with Louis of France... hmmm..
Did anyone tell you guys the unrestricted leaders option was on? Maybe you all didn't get the memo 
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