[SPOILERS] By the Rivers of Babylon, FIN has no effect (on krovice)

[novice]

That sounds good.

Did I understand you correctly that dtay settled a city? Is the hill NW of the gold still jungled?

[Krill]

Yes and Yes.

[novice]

C&D-wise it seems population points are worth one score point on this map.

[Krill]

I am way too lazy to care about C&D values in a normal game, no way in hell would I even countenance a thought about trying to do it with 32 other teams and 1 lurker civ wrecking the numbers.

[novice]

I am way too lazy to care about C&D values in a normal game, no way in hell would I even countenance a thought about trying to do it with 32 other teams and 1 lurker civ wrecking the numbers.

I only care about dtay.

[Krill]

Really, his traits fall off a bit IMO after T75, and we mainly have to contend with the lead he will have built up in pop and cities before he comes back with PRO Oromo at Gunpowder. I think simply settling third city on that grass hill and trying to keep up with him in population and cities even if it means chopping everything is the right call: spam cities, beeline Calendar>Monarchy>Currency, grow as much pop as possible onto FIN cottages to not go bankrupt and fit in military techs where appropriate like always. CRE means we can control the border so long as we get our choice of city locations, on hills with nothing but flatland before them and Bowmen to make anything short of a HA rush a bitch. Go Fishing>Pottery>Hunting>(AH/Archery). Try to get a chariot out to uncover the rest of the continent as the warriors will not suffice for scouting it, but need to use the southern warrior to find out where our borders will likely end.

If we can get a semi-circle of cities from north counter-clockwise to south around the capital, and then backfill, we can probably get at least 10 cities at decent spacing or maybe up to 14 without war. We have at least 3 Calendar resources, ivory and wines, plus HR (which we kinda want because of the wines) which means base happy cap of 10, we just need to unlock the techs to get it. If we find a single metal happy or furs, then I think this position will be fine with that plan.

[novice]

Yes, very well summarized, Krill. My only fear is that dtay decides he should hurt us while he has the upper hand. I don't think he'll make a duel out of a 33-player game, though. If he really didn't settle for copper I guess that confirms that assumption.

...otoh that probably means he settled for horses. Edit: although I don't think he has the techs for that.

[Krill]

I think Ethiopia is Hunting/Mining so BW>AH is possible, but that would mean he produced an average of, what, 13-14 adjusted bpt, and lucked into settling for horses? Or AH first and then get BW, but that would mean delaying chops so I don't think he could have gotten a settler that quick. I don't think he has AH instead went for Pottery, using wheel first for roads as has no grain resources.

[novice]

Okay I think I've pieced together dtay's opening based on his graphs, and it fits with your hypothesis, Krill.

He settled on a plains hill and built a 10-turn worker working a grass forest. Turn 10 he moved to the pig, and pastured it t11-14. He grew to size 2 on a warrior but didn't complete it, and instead started a second worker. After pasturing the pig he pastured a plains hill sheep. Then both workers chopped a settler. The warrior was completed after the second worker but before the settler was started.

Tech wise he went BW->The Wheel and he also popped a tech from a hut circa t8. That was a tech with no power, so e.g. Agriculture.

So he doesn't know where horses are and he has one warrior, two cities and two workers.

[Krill]

I thought you were on holiday? Why are you still doing C&D?