RB PBEM 2 - de Krill of Fronce

[T-hawk]

Since you are a player in PB2, you can't create spoilers.

Sure he can, if he were to know something about another civ/player in PB2 that should not be knowledge to all PB2 players. Remember that other PB2 players can read this thread over here in a different game.

[novice]

Yeah but Dantski could post whatever he wants in the public player thread too, couldn't he?

[Yazilliclick]

Yeah but Dantski could post whatever he wants in the public player thread too, couldn't he?

Exactly. Can say what he wants as he's a player, just has to keep in mind it's same as saying it in public thread.

[MWIN]

He can also post it in his PB2 thread and post a link here (with spoiler warning)...

Sure he can, if he were to know something about another civ/player in PB2 that should not be knowledge to all PB2 players. Remember that other PB2 players can read this thread over here in a different game.

[Yazilliclick]

I'd recommend not going that route myself just because I know I often click on links without paying attention to intros

[sunrise089]

In all honesty the founding of Paris was a very dastardly act and would have deserved a NAP-stab.

Were I less lazy I'd compose a list of players that say such things and consider NAPs with them a big step down from NAPs with others. Non-aggression pacts are just that - deals not to commit aggression on a civ for a certain amount of time. They aren't deals to promote the interest of the NAP partner over everyone except yourself (see my relationship with regoarrarr in RBP1), nor are they agreements to try and work together but open to an attack at any time (see Persian diplo during RBP1). It's fine to add in additional provisions (like my NAPs in RBP1 with Broker and Dreylin) that benefit one or both parties but IMHO the clear plain language of the pact means that in the absence of additional language you can't commit aggression on your NAP partner just because you wish you had agreed to some additional conditions ex-post.

sunrises' laziness

That land wasn't very good pre-biology, state property, and steam power IMHO. And, I had plenty of stuff to settle in the south. You may recall my growth curve was a bit slowed down in RBP1...

[Rowain]

There was no nap in place, but I'm not sure I'd call the founding of Paris "dastardly". Obviously I'm biased, and I understand the Ottoman reaction, but I don't know how it's dastardly

The dastardly comes not from the settling itself but that you did it while you were negotiating a NAP and settlements and other things.

Non-aggression pacts are just that - deals not to commit aggression on a civ for a certain amount of time. They aren't deals to promote the interest of the NAP partner over everyone except yourself (see my relationship with regoarrarr in RBP1), nor are they agreements to try and work together but open to an attack at any time (see Persian diplo during RBP1).

Noone says anything about promoting the interest of the NAP-partner. It all hinges what is meant with aggression. IMO aggression is more than moving Units across the border . The later would be war not only aggression. For me a NAP means that you don't act to hurt your NAP-partner. = No settling right into his face, no recruiting of others to fight per proxy etc etc.

Edit-PS: @Krill YOu asked about lurker-opinions on your moves: So while I had thought the NAP with darrellj null and void for his acts and your actions (allying with Dreylin) for justified your new plan and your new actions -telling darrellj that the NAP is still in place while planning to break it and kill him although he pays for his steel-trade- are over the top.

[Krill]

I've spent the past few months figuring out exactly what to do regarding diplomacy, and end of the day I would now have to betray either Dreylin or Darrell, and Dreylin hasn't done anything against me in the game, so I'm going to hit Darrell.

I've come up with a rudimentary attack plan, but I'm not sure if it'll work. If it does, then on the first turn of the war, there is a decent chance I take out half of Darrells cities on the main landmass, and Dreylin takes out all of Darrells' army in the west.

My crop yield is curently twice the nearest neighbour, and I'm now in my last turn of GA so GNP is okish, but will be awful after next turn, and MFG will drop to about joint first with Dreylin. Power we are both tied for first with Darrell in a fairly close third place.

[Krill]

(1:09:53 AM) Krill: Yo dude
(1:09:56 AM) Krill: you around?
(1:10:08 AM) Dreylin: yep
(1:10:26 AM) Krill: you know what the fuck we are doing in PBEM2?
(1:10:57 AM) Dreylin: erm, conspiring against Darrell?
(1:11:06 AM) Krill: cool, that is about the level I'm at
(1:11:38 AM) Dreylin: vaguely planning to ambush his fleet when he moves against me thinking he has your support
(1:11:57 AM) Dreylin: don't think we actually got any further than vague
(1:12:01 AM) Dreylin:
(1:12:56 AM) Krill: SoL is going to be difficult to work around.
(1:13:05 AM) Krill: getting Darrell to move forward
(1:13:51 AM) Krill: Just figuring out what I can build that makes it looks like I'm still trying to attack you
(1:13:53 AM) Krill: also
(1:14:00 AM) Krill: I probably have to be an evil bastard with tech
(1:14:16 AM) Dreylin: well I couldn't delay much longer and feel secure myself....
(1:14:23 AM) Krill: np
(1:14:24 AM) Dreylin: to us, or him?
(1:14:51 AM) Krill: just hope you understand that it does make it more difficult to work everything out. Still doable, but I'm going tohave to "tech" Mil Sci next
(1:14:59 AM) Dreylin: o'course we're still at war
(1:15:11 AM) Dreylin: ah
(1:15:15 AM) Krill: yeah
(1:15:38 AM) Dreylin: well at least if you're doing it then Darrell will be expecting to get it from you, right?
(1:15:48 AM) Krill: yes
(1:16:03 AM) Krill: but here is the thring, I'm about to drop out of GA and my economy will collapse
(1:16:36 AM) Krill: so that will make the teching time around 6-8 turns
(1:17:14 AM) Krill: I can get it in 12 from just specs
(1:18:11 AM) Dreylin: hmmm, so "all" you have to do is pursuade Darrell to move forward soon before I can build my SoL's...
(1:18:38 AM) Krill: exactly
(1:18:52 AM) Krill: but he has no boats that I can see near you, he is at least 4 turns from hitting you
(1:18:56 AM) Krill: and I will have to help him out
(1:19:23 AM) Krill: so here is what I'm suggesting: I set tech to MS, save as much goild as I can because Darrell can see my tech
(1:19:55 AM) Krill: I crank out 2 galleons, with no troops in to act as decoys to my fleet
(1:20:11 AM) Krill: We'll head for nico first
(1:21:04 AM) Krill: your boats will need to be 2E of nico
(1:21:17 AM) Krill: we'll be in one stack
(1:21:22 AM) Krill: i'll send peace to you
(1:21:24 AM) Krill: you accept
(1:21:39 AM) Krill: you declare on darrell, and trash his galleons
(1:21:45 AM) Krill: he shouldn;t have anything else
(1:21:50 AM) Krill: because I'll be providing hte cover
(1:22:12 AM) Dreylin: OK, sounds like a plan
(1:22:34 AM) Dreylin: Now I just have to figure out where Nicomedia is!
(1:23:14 AM) Krill: big city towards me, your front city
(1:24:06 AM) Dreylin: on mainland, right.
(1:24:18 AM) Dreylin: trying to dig up my maps right now
(1:24:19 AM) Krill: on the island to your southeast
(1:24:44 AM) Dreylin: oh right, that one
(1:25:22 AM) Krill: I'm also preparing what is hopefully a solid welcoming party for several of his new cities
(1:29:03 AM) Krill: also, quick point. I just finished PP
(1:30:11 AM) Dreylin: ok
(1:30:13 AM) Krill: how do you and SL probably want to handle tech?
(1:31:06 AM) Dreylin: Dunno, haven't thought about it...

[pocketbeetle]

And if everything goes to plan and you win vs Darrell, what then?

Turn your armies on the remaining players, or go for some other victory?
Or is that just too far away for the time being?
Will you be keeping the cities captured off Darrell?