[SPOILERS] Seven Russias Into the Periclous Fray

[SevenSpirits]

More talk about techs - turns are going by and I'm on the way to Physics.

My options were:
* Military Science. No immediate use.
* Steel. Drydocks would be good to get going. Ironclads are meh. Cannons, I guess it might be good to build a few. (Currently, all military unit builds are Cossacks.) Ironworks: Maybe good? Where to put it...
* (Steel->)Railroad. Mild defensive boost, and a bonus to mines. I am windmilling almost every hill so this isn't so useful. Also required for Mining Inc (more later).
* Democracy. Can build statue of liberty which is insanely strong but insanely expensive. Civics and buildings that I don't want.
* Economics->Corporation. Economics is useless. Corp is worth a about 100cpt from trade routes. Not bad. It also allows corporations (more later).
* Scientific Method. Obsoletes parthenon and some monasteries.
* (SM->)Physics. Free scientist. Airships, which are nice. Needed for many important techs not mentioned here.
* (SM->)Biology. Quite a bit of food.
* (SM->)Liberalism->Communism. State Property and that's it. Well, I guess Free Religion could potentially be decent during a golden age. State property is not that much better than merc, I think. So I don't know if I will ever get these techs.
* (Corp->)Assembly Line. Factories and Coal Plants don't seem all that great quite yet, I am still building a lot of basic infrastructure in a lot of my cities. Generally I am going Granary-(Lighthouse)-Library-Research Institute-(Wharf)-Forge-Courthouse or something like that. Many cities still lack forges, so factories are unimpressive. And being able to 2-pop draft infantry doesn't seem much better than 1-pop drafting rifles. Currently I only need that capability for defense and the rifles seem good enough.

So I am going for physics. Why? Because the next timing at which I expect to have a military tech advantage that I want to apply offensively is after physics, and physics is a tech with a powerful first-to bonus. It's something like 2000 beakers. So compare to corporation: if I get Physics enough faster that I win the scientist, that's worth as much as getting corp 20 turns earlier. And on top of that it denies the scientist to an opponent. Meanwhile mackoti is currently busy getting railroad, and no one else has SM as far as I saw when I looked (which was a couple turns ago, admittedly).

The other good economic boosts are at Corporation and Biology. I might go for those next. The military level I want before engaging is oil ships + air support. I think that's really the moment where the attacker, and the tech leader, gets a big advantage. If I attack before oil ships, the defender will have ships that can contest my ships, but destroyers and transports are so much stronger than what comes before. So in order to reach that tech level I need at minimum scientific method, physics, Steel, Railroad, Combustion. Flight seems like an appropriate addition, too, and then maybe some better ground troops would be good too. (Electricity-Assembly Line-Industrialism?) Meanwhile Electricity is also another decent economy boost since I have so many windmills.

Let me also mention great people. I currently own two merchants and a scientist - I haven't gotten one of the lower-odds ones yet, though I keep trying. I'm getting one this turn that even has another chance at a prophet, which would obviously be huge. But engineer and spy have been constant possibilities that I've failed. I of course need a third type in order to start another golden age, which I think I will want to do fairly soon.

If I don't get an appropriate great person, I am considering trying to buy Haram's artist, which he got a few turns ago. I saw he has it stored in his capital and I could offer him something like 1500 gold for it, if I can manage to indicate to him that the artist is what I want in exchange.

If I get an engineer, I will be really torn about what to do with it - especially if it's my only near-term option for a golden age. It has a couple of other great uses. First, I could research democracy and rush (and then slowbuild the rest of) the statue of liberty. That would be worth 6b per city minimum, let's say multiplied by 1.33 on average (though closing in on 1.5), for a total of ~380 bpt. Not bad. I could also save it and try to get e.g. Christo Redentor or the pentagon. Another possibility is mining, inc, but I'm currently really skeptical that corps are worth getting at all. Let's look at it: mining inc is probably the strongest one for my empire and it would be worth 7hpt in each corp city, and cost typically 7gpt in courthouse cities or 14 without, and also earn 8gpt in the headquarters city. So net 7h 1g, right? Now, each branch costs 100h for the executive and 50g to spread the corp. If I generously call that roughly 8hpt for a cost of 140h, then the investment pays back in 18 turns, which is good. But... you also have to add the cost of the GE, which I think is worth roughly 1000h. Let's say we somehow manage to spread it to 30 cities in a fairly quick timeframe despite the 3 executive limit. Then you can consider the 1000h to be spread over 30 cities, for 33h per city, giving a total cost per city of 163h. Now we are paying back the cost after 22 turns. That's still good, ok!

But actually, the engineer isn't worth 1000h. Instead, the engineer plus 500h plus 5464 beakers are worth The Statue of Liberty, which is worth 380bpt, which is worth roughly 228hpt. That pays back in roughly 21 turns. Well OK, now that I do the math, that's only slightly better than Mining Inc, I guess. So maybe Mining Inc is better since I think it has more upside if I conquer more land. But also, maybe I should be switching to State Property because it's a massively overpowered civic. Corps are having a hard time competing with just plain using the GP for something else, while the "drawback" of SP is that you can't use corps. Big whoop if the benefit from SP is so high. The only thing giving me pause here is the fact that mercantilism is so strong. Probably a moot point anyway - I've already produced most of the GPs I will produce in the near future and none of them rolled engineer. This is why I'm not even at all worrying about whether I will be first to corp+railroad or not.

[novice]

If I don't get an appropriate great person, I am considering trying to buy Haram's artist, which he got a few turns ago. I saw he has it stored in his capital and I could offer him something like 1500 gold for it, if I can manage to indicate to him that the artist is what I want in exchange.

Would be interesting to see you try.

[Qgqqqqq]

How is Merc changed in your mod?

Who are you inclined to attack post-(combustion/oil ships)?

[SevenSpirits]

How is Merc changed in your mod?

Who are you inclined to attack post-(combustion/oil ships)?

It's not changed.

I don't know. Realistically, my options are Haram, Grimace, and Wetbandit. Mackoti is on the other side of the map, and Gawdzak don't share much of a border with me. I'm planning to see how the situation develops and try to be able to take advantage of further openings. It's worked well so far.

[Krill]

But actually, the engineer isn't worth 1000h. Instead, the engineer plus 500h plus 5464 beakers are worth The Statue of Liberty, which is worth 380bpt, which is worth roughly 228hpt. That pays back in roughly 21 turns. Well OK, now that I do the math, that's only slightly better than Mining Inc, I guess. So maybe Mining Inc is better since I think it has more upside if I conquer more land. But also, maybe I should be switching to State Property because it's a massively overpowered civic. Corps are having a hard time competing with just plain using the GP for something else, while the "drawback" of SP is that you can't use corps. Big whoop if the benefit from SP is so high. The only thing giving me pause here is the fact that mercantilism is so strong. Probably a moot point anyway - I've already produced most of the GPs I will produce in the near future and none of them rolled engineer. This is why I'm not even at all worrying about whether I will be first to corp+railroad or not.

By the same token, wouldn't SoL be better if you conquered more land?

Also, how are you accounting for trade routes in the civic comparison?

[SevenSpirits]

Well, it's +8b per new city with SoL, compared to +1h in ALL cities for every pair of mining resources I take over, not to mention the additional places I can expand the corp to. I think the corp's potential to grow is a lot higher.

Not being able to have foreign trade routes is worth about 3c per city on average. (Of course, in some cities it is worth more, and in some it's worth less.) I calculated this when I was deciding whether to go for FM or merc - it may have changed by now and it's obviously hard to tell since I can't see foreign routes anymore. But I would expect that it's changed for the worse - it might be down to 2c per city by now. The number of foreign overseas/large cities probably has not increased much, while the number of routes I need to fill has increased a lot. So anyway, merc, being worth roughly 6-7c per city from the specialists, I am thinking of as net +3-4c per city, or about 150-200 raw commerce. Plus it's giving gpp and it's more flexible - I've been taking advantage of being able to run artists and engineers quite a lot. And of course it's denying a good amount of foreign trade income to opponents.

If I were running free market it would be something like +2.2c per city, so quite a bit worse than merc at this point.

State property's distance maintenance removal is less than the benefit of merc, but it comes with extra food and +10% hammers too. The main issue with it is the cost of researching two dead-end techs.

[SevenSpirits]

t193-195 Science and Faith

Here were my odds at the various types of great people. Perhaps my enthusiastic research of the long-scorned priesthood, and diligent building of missionaries, were what precipitated the rise of a new Buddha.



I had thoughtfully set up some getaway cars for the new Buddha's pilgrimage to Quack, despite my skepticism.



Interlude #1: Due to not getting an artist, I went ahead with operation "try to negotiate a great person gift with the most stoic and perplexing trade partner in the world". I laid out an escort and offered 150gpt for all his luxuries. I thought 1500g would be the most iconic and recognizable price for a great person, so I just went with that instead of trying to get a better deal.



Interlude #2. I noticed that Gawdzak had started researching physics. I don't know what he was teching last turn. Maybe scientific method? Or maybe physics already and I was blind? Or maybe nothing because I played before he selected a tech? In any case, I looked back through the event log and decided that he probably didn't own a great scientist and it was therefore probably impossible for him to tie me to physics by getting it in two turns. So I went ahead with operation "only be able to build both temples and monasteries for a single turn". (In case it's not clear, the priesthood research last turn was just to build up overflow so I could get SM and physics on consecutive turns. I had previously researched SM to near-completion. But I sure didn't want to obsolete my monasteries and parthenon until the last possible minute.)

Here are techs, gold, gpt and civics of my opponents, in case anyone is interested. I looked at them and took screenshots because I was wanting to guess Gawdzak's tech rate.







Back to the important stuff. The Buddha arrives in Quack and finds it sadly devoid of the ability to extract extra money from practicing believers. It's not even building one now! That's alright, said Buddha. First we will finish this levee (even though it's disappointingly different from a levy) and then we will build lots of financial buildings, to better produce income from our religion. Additionally, the Buddha had sent orders in advance to replace a remote hamlet and a couple farms with workshops in order to hasten the production of these critical instruments.



I'm not sure if it was correct to make the shrine. Now I still need a third GP for a golden age (which, however, I'm fine delaying). And maybe it's too late in the game for a shrine to be the best use of an extra great person - maybe just getting another flat 2300g from a merchant's mission would have been better. Obviously I went with the shrine though.

Haram has not yet made any move indicating that he received my trade offer or noticed my units. His poker face is impenetrable.

As for physics, I beat Gawdzak to it by 1-2 turns, using a scientist for 2.9k beakers and getting a replacement immediately. Next up I am planning to get Biology, which I think will be worth 80+fpt, and then economics/corporation for the extra trade routes. Then up to combustion?

Mackoti seems to have gone back to insane wealth builds and is nearing combustion as we speak. That's pretty irrelevant for me though, since we are so separated. And by the way, the world is signing a lot of defensive pacts. The more the better, IMO. Defensive pacts mean that if you declare war on someone, your trade routes with other players get nuked, which is just fine with me. I just hope haram can get some pacts with the other big players so that mackoti's potential declaration will have some drawbacks. Unsurprisingly, he currently has zero.

[SevenSpirits]

The turns have been insanely fast since retep was eliminated, btw. I played the last 4 turns in an 18-hour period. These are all turns that take minimum 30 minutes.

[Ichabod]

Demographics are looking pretty bad - they have been getting worse and worse since about when I settled my second city. I am 15 points behind Napoleon who has no early acceleration from traits, and behind HAK in every economic category.

Welcome to our world, Seven.

You have come a long way since then, right? Really impressive work, even if you don't manage to win the game in the end.

[retep]

Hey, I'll play most of my turns in the first 14h! Mostly because the turn roll in awkward times for me