[SPOILERS] Will the Sun(rise) Ever Set on Washington, Mongolia?

[Whosit]

Ugh, I don't suppose there's any way to edit the amount of hammers in a build in a save file? It appears that last time I advanced in my sandbox save, I forgot to swap Soos off its Galley and onto an Archer, so the Galley will have hammers in it that it shouldn't have (I know they'll decay eventually, but...) and I can just make an Archer appear on the proper turn, but that'll mess up overflow calculations and all that. Argh.

@Novice: Oh, well, that's... something? I don't suppose you would care to observe a little more closely? :P Also, I'm going to take that to mean that my thread is the one most worth reading. :D

[Whosit]

Good news for me: With a lot of terrain/resource changing voodoo, I can get Soos to have the right amount of hammers and overflow for the completion of the Archer. I should double check in the real game, though.

Also, I'll post images later, but fish island is indeed an island, but there are a couple of grasslands to the east of it (both with forests), and 1E of where I'll settle the city is a furs resource! This means I'll need to get a Worker over there as soon as I can, and this also makes my Markets that much more viable! I will have Ivory, Fur, and Silks for certain, with the possibility of grabbing the Whales to my southeast depending on how things work out. +3 happy 1/2 cost markets are nothing to sneeze at.

[Whosit]

Did I forget to mention that what makes CH even scarier are the two lucky events he got? Cover (+25% vs Archers) for all his Melee units, and Shock (+25% vs Melee) for all his Axes. So his Axes come out with Shock and Cover automatically. His Swordsmen will be terrifying against Archers. His Axes will smash mine. And with those Cover bonuses, I just can't afford to defend that front with Archers, either. Hell, when he gets Maces those will have a nice advantage over Longbows. He already has the top power (though I'm hoping it's just techs/# of units needed to defend large # of cities). And what's even worse, I'm going to have a long border with him, so if he decides to attack he can pick his location. I REALLY hope the Zulu pressure him.

[Whosit]

OK, made a new plan. It only took me all frickin' day long. I hope I don't have to do this again any time soon.

T73: Stanford (Galley > Settler) (Work finished mine to north); Wendy (Settler > Work Boat); Soos (Archer > Work Boat); Dipper (Work Boat > Work Boat); Dipper swap grassland to coast; Worker at (0,3) Road (finish); Worker at (1,11) Pasture Sheep (finish); Worker at (0,11) Chop to Mabel (finish); Worker at (3,8) Cottage; New Work Boat explore towards offshore City 6; Worker at (1,1) Mine; Load Settler into Galley; Galley Move to (2,0); Worker at (-4,0) Move to (-1,-1); Send Chariot to Stanford to escort Worker/Settler.
T74: Wendy (Work Boat > Lighthouse); Galley at (2,0) Move to (3,2); Load Archer onto Galley; Worker at (3,8) Cottage (finish); Dipper work new Cottage; Worker at (-1,-1) Road; Worker at (0,11) Cottage; Worker at (1,11) Move to (0,11) Cottage; Worker at (0,3) Move to (0,-1).
T75: Soos (Work Boat > Continue Barracks); Galley Drop Off Settler/Axe; Work Boat Move to Island Fish (circled island); Worker at (1,1) Mine; 2 Workers at (0,11) Cottage (finish); Worker at (-1,-1) Road (finish); Worker at (0,-1) move to (-1,-2) Road; Worker at (3,8) Move to (2,7) Road (finish).
T76: Settle (Pacifica: Granary) It's a net gain due to IC trade routes!!; Worker at (1,1) Mine (finish); Stanford swaps to Plains Mine, Soos swaps to Grass Mine; Worker at (2,7) Move to Galley; Worker at (-1,-2) Road (finish); Worker at (-1,-1) Move to (-1,-3); 1 Worker at (0,11) Move to (1,10); 1 Worker at (0,11) Move to (-1,10) Farm.
T77: Science 100% (Maths in 5t); Soos (Barracks > Settler); Dipper (Work Boat > Worker); Net Wendy Crab (work mine) & Swap Wendy to Settler (12T); Worker at (1,10) Chop to Dipper; Worker at (-1,10) Farm; Galley move into Pacifica, unload Worker; Worker at (5,5) Move to (6,5); Worker at (-1,-3) Road; Worker at (-1,-2) Move to (-1,-3); Worker at (1,1) Move to (-2,0).
T78: Stanford (Settler > Worker); Worker at (1,10) Chop; Worker at (-1,10) Farm; Worker at (6,5) Camp; Worker at (-1,-3) Road (finish); Worker at (-1,-3) Chop (stop); Worker at (-2,0) Move to (-4,2).
T79: Worker at (1,10) Chop to Mabel (finish); Worker at (-1,10) Farm; Net Dipper Clams & Work them; Worker at (6,5) Camp; 1 Worker at (-1,-3) Move to (-1,-4) Road; 1 Worker at (-1,-3) Chop (stop); Move Settler South; Worker at (-4,2) Chop to Wendy; Worker at (-1,-4) Road (finish); Settle (OldMan McGucket: Granary); 1pop whip Mabel (Granary).
T80: Mabel (Granary > Monument); Net McGucket Crabs; Worker at (-1,-3) Chop; Worker at (6,5) Camp; Worker at (-4,2) Chop; Worker at (-1,10) Farm (finish); Worker at (1,10) Move to (2,9).

Units: 6 Workers, 2 Archers, 1 Chariot, 7 Warriors, 2 Axemen, 1 Spearman, 1 Galley
Demos: GNP 64 (100%), Prod (40), Food (99)
7 Cities with 30 population points

T81: Maths > Currency (0%); Stanford (Worker > Galley); Worker at (0,0) Move to (-1,0) Cottage; Worker at (-1,-3) Chop to McGucket (finish); Worker at (-1,-6) Chop; Worker at (6,5) Camp (finish); Worker at (-1,10) Move to (-1,7); Worker at (2,9) Mine; Worker at (-4,2) Chop to Wendy (finish); Mabel works Farm.
T82: Dipper (Worker > Lighthouse); Worker at (-1,-3) Farm; Worker at (-1,-6) Chop; Worker at (-4,2) Road; Worker at (-1,7) Road; Worker at (3,7) Move to (3,9); Worker at (2,9) Mine; Worker at (6,5) Road; Worker at (-1,0) Cottage); 1pop whip Mabel (Monument); 1-pop Whip Wendy (Settler).
T83: Wendy (Settler > Lighthouse); Soos (Settler > Spearman); Mabel (Monument > Archer); Worker at (-1,7) Road; Worker at (-4,2) Road (finish); Worker at (-1,6) Chop (finish); Worker at (-1,-3) Farm; Worker at (2,9) Mine; Worker at (3,9) Chop; Worker at (6,5) Road (finish); Worker at (-1,0) Cottage; Move Settlers.
T84: Mabel (Archer > Axeman); McGucket (Granary > Monument); Worker at (-1,7) Road (finish); Worker at (-1,-6) Cottage; Worker at (-1,-3) Farm; Worker at (2,9) Mine (finish); Worker at (3,9) Chop; Worker at (-1,0) Cottage (finish); Settle (Toby Determined: Granary); Worker at (-4,2) Move to (-5,4) Pasture; Worker at (6,5) Chop.
T85: Stanford (Galley > Library); Soos (Spearman > Worker); Settle (Gideon Gleeful: Monument); Gideon takes Mabel's Pig (oh no! Waddles!); Worker at (-1,7) Move to (-2,8); Worker at (-1,-3) Farm; Worker at (-1,-6) Cottage; Worker at (2,9) Move to (2,8) Road (stop); Worker at (3,9) Chop (finish); Worker at (6,5) Chop; Worker at (-5,4) Pasture; Worker at (-1,0) Move to (-3,2) Farm; 2-pop Whip Dipper (Lighthouse)
T86: Dipper (Ligthouse > Library); Worker at (3,9) Move to (2,8) Road (finish); Worker at (2,8) Move to (-1,7) Mine; Worker at (-2,8) Chop; Worker at (-5,4) Pasture; Worker at (-3,2) Farm; Worker at (-1,-3) Farm (finish); Worker at (-1,-6) Cottage; Worker at (6,5) Chop (finish); Move Galley to (4,6); 2-pop Whip Mabel (Axe).
T87: Mabel (Axe > Archer); Worker at (6,5) Move to Galley; Galley unloads in Dipper; Worker at (-2,8) Chop; Worker at (2,8) Move to (-1,7) Mine; Worker at (-1,7) Mine; Worker at (-5,4) Pasture (finish); Worker at (-3,2) Farm; Worker at (-1,-3) Move to (-1,0); Whip Pacifica (Granary); Swap Wendy to (Worker).
Note: Now I'm feeling the worker crunch!
T88: Soos (Worker > Spearman); Pacifica (Granary > Monument); Worker at (-1,0) Move (-1,4); Worker at (1,4) Move to (0,4); Worker at (3,7) move to (1,7) Cottage; Worker at (-2,8) Chop (finish); 2 Workers at (-1,7) Mine (finish); Worker at (-5,4) Move to (-4,4); Worker at (-3,2) Farm; Worker at (-1,-6) Move to (-2,-5); 2-pop Whp Stanford (Library).
T89: Science 100%? (Currency 5T); Stanford (Library > Barracks); Mabel (Archer > Library); Pacifica (Monument > Lighthouse); Gideon Gleeful (Monument > Granary); Worker at (-3,2) Farm (finish); Worker at (-4,4) Chop; Worker at (1,7) Cottage; 2 Workers at (-1,7) Move to (1,7) Cottage (finish); Worker at (-2,8) Move to (-1,8); Worker at (0,4) Mine; Worker at (-1,4) Chop to Soos; Worker at (-2,-5) Mine.
T90: Soos (Spearman > Axeman); Worker at (0,4) Mine; Worker at (-1,4) Chop; Worker at (-4,4) Chop; Worker at (-2,-5) Mine; Worker at (-1,8) Chop; 1 Worker at (1,7) Move to (1,8); 1 Worker at (1,7) Move to (0,6); 1 Worker at (1,7) Move to (3,9) Cottage; Worker at (-3,2) Move to (-4,1) Road (finish).

Units: 9 Workers, 4 Archers, 1 Chariot, 7 Warriors, 3 Axemen, 3 Spearmen, 2 Galleys
Demos: GNP 82, Prod 49, Food 124
9 Cities with 40 Pop points

T91: Swap Soos to Worker; Worker at (-1,4) Chop (finish); Worker at (-4,4) Chop (finish); Worker at (-4,1) Move to (-3,-2); Worker at (-1,8) Chop; Worker at (1,8) Chop to Mabel; Worker at (3,9) Cottage; Worker at (0,4) Mine; Worker at (0,6) Mine; Worker at (-2,-5) Mine.
T92: Soos (Worker > Axeman); Worker at (0,4) Mine (finish); Worker at (-4,4) Move to (-5,4) Road (stop); Worker at (-2,-5) Mine (finish); Worker at (-3,-2) Chop; Worker at (-1,8) Chop (finish); Worker at (1,8) Chop; Worker at (0,6) Mine; Worker at (-1,4) Farm; Worker at (1,4) Move to (1,3) Farm (stop); Worker at (3,9) Cottage.
T93: Stanford (Barracks > Chariot); Soos (Axeman > Chariot); Dipper (Library > Galley?); Dipper hire 2 Scientists and stagnate (give wheat to Soos); Mabel works 2 1/2/0 tiles; Worker (-4,-2) Chop; Worker at (3,9) Move to (2,9) *should have done in first place*; Worker at (1,8) Chop (finish); Worker at (0,6) Mine; Worker at (1,3) Move to (0,1) Cottage; Worker at (-1,4) Farm; Worker at (0,4) Move to (-1,4) Farm; Worker at (-5,4) Move to (-6,4) Cottage; Worker at (-2,-5) Move to (-1,-4) Cottage; Worker at (-1,8) Move to (-2,9).

Units: 10 Workers, 4 Archers, 1 Chariot, 7 Warrior, 4 Axeman, 3 Spearman, 2 Galley
Demos: GNP 97, Prod 57, Food 127
9 Cities with 46

So my turn 80 stats are better, but my turn 90 stats are a little weaker on the demos. Also, last time my sandbox said I could tech Currency in 4 turn on T88, but this time it required 6 turns so a lot more saving up cash. So it looks like I can get Currency on T94, so later than I wanted, but not... terrible? I really don't know. I've seen talk of Currency on T80, but I don't know if that's a beeline or what. Anyway, I may try to alter this to slip in some extra workers somewhere earlier, but on the other hand, I'm really nervous to try to defend my border cities with only a Warrior or an Archer.

It kind of sucks that ALL of my cities are border cities. I really don't have any kind of backline here, and I'm willing to bet some of my opponents have safe places to fill in. Ah, and until Currency is done and I add some troops, I don't think I can expand beyond 9 cities. I'm not really sure where to settle next, maybe north of Mabel, though it depends on what Korea and HRE do. Sigh.

[Krill]

Use Google documents Whosit.

[Whosit]

For what?

[Whosit]

Ugh, so here's some fast updates about this turn:

Got some cash from pillaging improvements.




CH and I flashing Axes at each other, wheee.




Got vision on a CH city on the lake...




And some big trouble to the north:




This is where I wish I could get some advice. I guess it's my own damn fault for not having adequate protection up north (the curse of trying to expand in several directions at once, but I'm not sure I had much of a choice). I haven't ended turn yet to sit on this, but the only units I have up there are the Warrior, an Archer, and a Spearman, none of which are going to kill that Axeman. Spending 80 gold on an upgrade at this point in the game hurts, a lot, and is going to delay my teching by probably 4-5 turns at least (and that really sucks with Maths here because I had a couple of chops timed to finish when the tech was done). However, I either spend 80 gold now and get a Combat I/Shock Axe that can probably kill that Barb axe if it steps over the river, or wait several turns to bring reinforcements or whip a unit from Mabel, but that means I lose the sheep pasture at the least, and worker actions get delayed a ton.

As it stands, I'm going to have to move those Workers. I might check in the world build what the odds are for an Axe attacking across the river to a spearman, but I'm pretty sure the Axe has odds. This suuuuuucks. Especially because I just spent a whole freaking day hashing out my last 20 turn micro plan. I guess I might want Soos to spit out a couple extra Axes or Chariots soon just to be safe., though I'd rather get the extra workers.

[novice]

The archer+warrior+spear combo is more than ample protection for your city, if the axe attacks the city. It might pillage the sheep first but them's the breaks. I wouldn't upgrade the warrior. Where are the workers? Keep them close to reconnect the sheep, I guess.

[Whosit]

I suppose that's true. I know the city itself isn't in danger, I just really don't want to lose the sheep and the growth, but I guess as you say "them's the breaks." Workers are currently under the spearman, so SW or "1" of the barb Axe. I was probably going to move them 1SW and do... something. Maybe put some turns into a farm, because I was going to do that eventually, or maybe a road so they can run further away next turn if it looks like the axe is going to pursue them. There's just not a ton for them to do. Will probably do the road as that gives me a few more options for the next turn....

Sigh. Yeah, you're surely right that losing the sheep pasture is better than losing the 80 gold. I think I'll just move my chariot from the south to the north and try to sneak another Chariot or something out for the south.

[novice]

If you move the workers sw and road, and move the spear into the city, that could work out. I'm not an expert on barb movement but maybe the axe will move SW to pursue the workers.

If the axe moves onto the sheep I think there's still a chance it attacks the city instead of pillaging.

You could also move the warrior to where the workers currently are, to lure the axe onto that tile. Not sure if that's worth it, though.