RBPB3 - Gandhi of the Egyptians

[Krill]

Chat with HRE. Let's see what happens...

(5:42:05 PM) Krill: Yo dude, do you have contact with Maya?
(5:42:23 PM) HRE: not yet
(5:42:30 PM) Krill: bugger
(5:42:37 PM) Krill: oh well
(5:42:38 PM) HRE: they're west of Mali
(5:42:42 PM) HRE: why?
(5:42:47 PM) Krill: South of me then
(5:42:58 PM) Krill: Just wondering who has contact with Maya
(5:43:04 PM) HRE: India
(5:43:08 PM) Krill: if there is anyone other than them, though
(5:43:17 PM) Krill: I know all about hte India/Maya situation..
(5:43:33 PM) HRE: fill me in
(5:44:00 PM) HRE: heard there was some trouble, but nothing more
(5:44:23 PM) Krill: India will 9/10 lose thir copper city if Maya attack with their chariot
(5:44:45 PM) HRE: and they are certain of attack?
(5:44:51 PM) Krill: This is what happens if you spam out cities without the requisite military to support them on this map
(5:44:54 PM) Krill: nah
(5:45:02 PM) Krill: just over 8 hours remaining
(5:45:06 PM) HRE: yeah they're at 4 cities already
(5:45:11 PM) Krill: so still time to try and solve the situation diplomatically
(5:46:01 PM) HRE: they're threatening?
(5:46:15 PM) Krill: the mere fact that they have the chariot there is threat enough
(5:46:26 PM) Krill: plus some wierd diplomacy emails from maya...
(5:46:28 PM) HRE: could be just exploring
(5:46:30 PM) HRE: ah
(5:46:36 PM) Krill: Yeah
(5:46:58 PM) HRE: oh well, like you said, they shouldn't have been spamming cities that quickly
(5:47:27 PM) HRE: are we supposed to front them our techs?
(5:47:36 PM) Krill: Depends on the techs.
(5:47:42 PM) HRE: because it seems they won't be researching that fast
(5:47:44 PM) Krill: Ancient era stuff, yeah, fromt all of that
(5:47:51 PM) Krill: HBR, hold onto it
(5:48:03 PM) Krill: Well, front it to me, obviously
(5:48:06 PM) Krill: :0
(5:48:16 PM) HRE: i wanted to talk to you about not giving Alphabet and or any non-necessary tech right away
(5:48:23 PM) Krill: go on
(5:48:36 PM) HRE: the minute everyone start increasing scores and getting Alpha
(5:48:42 PM) HRE: everyone will know what's up
(5:48:50 PM) Krill: our alliance becomes known publically
(5:48:56 PM) Krill: Yeah, it is a problem
(5:48:58 PM) HRE: exactly
(5:49:00 PM) HRE: so
(5:49:21 PM) HRE: I'd say trade Alpha with a civ that has Pottery
(5:49:30 PM) Krill: Ottomans
(5:49:35 PM) HRE: yup
(5:49:48 PM) HRE: then they can trade it around
(5:50:06 PM) Krill: I need to trade it to Portugal as well, to spread Sailing for better trade routes and to trade resources along the rivers
(5:50:07 PM) HRE: and I'd say start sharing around once our miltary techs come in
(5:50:15 PM) Krill: As to the rest, I agree...
(5:50:24 PM) HRE: ok
(5:50:39 PM) HRE: we'll need to explain it to the rest of the Cartel
(5:50:43 PM) Krill: The problem is, I'll be waiting for some teams to demand Alphabet up front. It should be interesting to watch though
(5:50:56 PM) Krill: You can float the idea...if I do it seems self serving
(5:51:02 PM) HRE: not if we explain the benefits of waiting
(5:51:15 PM) HRE: not like everyone needs Alpha right away
(5:51:45 PM) HRE: I'll try and prepare an email to all cartel members
(5:51:57 PM) HRE: since we seem the only onces to have met everyone
(5:52:09 PM) Krill: Yup, just you...
(5:52:15 PM) Krill: I should meet England next turn
(5:52:18 PM) HRE: good
(5:52:33 PM) Krill: I suppose I'm lucky, not met a single member of hte other alliance
(5:52:44 PM) HRE: hehe
(5:52:59 PM) HRE: any news from Aztec front?
(5:53:07 PM) Krill: Nope
(5:53:13 PM) Krill: But it can't be good
(5:53:17 PM) HRE: nah
(5:53:26 PM) Krill: IIRC the second city is likely to fall there
(5:53:30 PM) HRE: Ottomans will have two chariots there soon
(5:53:34 PM) Krill: oh, cool
(5:54:01 PM) HRE: Ottomans will need to coordinate closely with Aztec
(5:54:14 PM) HRE: so you'll need to give Writing to ottomans for open borders
(5:54:28 PM) Krill: Considering I have to do that to gift Alphabet
(5:54:37 PM) HRE:
(5:54:57 PM) HRE: i guess you'll have to give writing first and then alpha turn after
(5:55:27 PM) Krill: Not sure, think it works differently in MP
(5:55:33 PM) Krill: in simulateous, anyway
(5:55:39 PM) HRE: anyway, I gotta go, I'll see you later tonight
(5:55:52 PM) Krill: cya around mate

[Krill]

Chat with Carthage. I'll comment later.

19:54 Carthage: Is this the right address?
19:55 me: Yes it is, and thanks for that
Carthage: np, just wanted to make sure I had set it up correctly
me: Cool.
Carthage: Anyway
19:57 We were actually quite suprised how close together our teams were.
19:58 me: It's a Teambattleground map
everyone is this close together...
19:59 64 tile square
Carthage: Weird
to our south, we have a lot of open land
20:00 If you'd like, I can go log into game and grab a screenshot so you can see
from what we had explored, it seemed to us that there was a lot more open land between teams than there is between us
20:01 that was why we had originally said we weren't comfortable negotitating yet -- we assumed we were further apart than we were and though the half-way mark if you will would still be land we hadn't explored
20:02 me: OK, sorry for the AFK, changing machines...
Carthage: np
20:03 me: OK, caught up now, np. I can certainly see the "late comer" teams not fully understanding hte map layout.
Carthage: yeah
20:05 For example, we've explored 13 tiles south (at the farthest extent) from our capital and have not seen any borders yet (and that's on top of having a capital settled 2S of the starting position)
me: Players aren't aligned perfectly into blocks
what with there being 17 teams originally
20:06 Carthage: understandably
me: That and Sullla hates identical starts...
Carthage: yeah
20:07 I guess what I am getting at is that we weren't intending any of our actions to come off as hostile or as trying to steal a spot
20:08 Until your screenshot showed otherwise, we had assumed those sheep weren't near your borders at all
me: ok
20:09 Carthage: in hindsight I can see how our actions seemed hostile. I hope that helps clear it up
20:11 me: It helps, but tbh, some sort of bilateral (trilateral with Ottomans if you really want) border would make alot of sense. We are going to be neighbours for quite a while, focussing on different fronts, and if one person maybe makes a settlement tht they feel is OK, but another side doesn't, well, it's those actions that cause alliances to fragment
20:12 Carthage: I completely agree
20:13 Now that we know how close we actually are, we would be interested in a border agreement
me: great
20:14 Where would you like to start?
20:15 slight aside...
Carthage: I think your initial proposal would be a good place to start
me: have you heard that India are making a world map from the alliance members current world maps?
Carthage: Yes
20:16 me: Well,hopefully that gets finished soon, so we can both see the majority of hte land between us
Carthage: Sounds like it would be very helpful for border planning
yeah
20:17 If you'd like, I can send a screenshot of the land a bit south of the horses so we can more accurately discuss the area
me: that would be great
I'll grab a screenshot of the area as I see it as well
20:18 Carthage: btw, do you know if there is a quick way to turn off the interface to get a bigger map view?
20:20 me: alt+i
20:24 Carthage: which email should I send the screenies to?
20:26 me: send it to new.mail.storage
that email autoforwards to personal email
keping a record for after the game
20:29 Carthage: btw, I'll be afk for the next couple of minutes
me: ok, looking at pics now
20:30 actually everything I have discovered, you have seen
and have maps that are btter than mine...
20:34 Carthage: except of knowing where your borders are
that was the big piece we were missing
20:35 me: fwiw, that area is desolate, south and west of the stone
no food resources
Carthage: dang
20:36 me: yeah
complete junk land
Carthage: most of our south is, as I suspect you say
either no food or absolutely no hammers
20:37 me: Well...
you can deal with zero hammers if you have no food
sorry
you can deal with zero hammers if you have food
Carthage: yeah
20:38 me: but if you have no food, no option but to farm and grow, then cottage
Carthage: the combination isn't any good though
me: ok, grabbing screenshot now...
20:39 fwiw, I'm willing to negoitiate you getting the plains hill city with sheep and stone
but I'd need something in return.
20:40 Carthage: so 1SE of sheep?
me: yeah
Carthage: Ok, we'd be interested in arranging something that could work for us
20:41 me: specifically, I'd want workers and pretty soon
Carthage: Was just about to suggest exp. workers
me: Makes sense
Carthage: I agree
20:43 me: specifically, I'd want to settle a city for that corn in the NW of your screenshot. I'd settle to the west of it, obviously...
your workers would make that doable
without it, I'm not sure if I'd manage to get that spot.
20:44 sent you the screenshot
20:45 Carthage: that sounds fine, as it would leave us room to grab those sheep with a city say SW-W of those other sheep
obviously as long as that sounds alright to you
me: fine by me...
20:46 though tbh a city to the N of the sheep looks nice
but I don't know what that terrain looks like
so that is just ideal speculation
20:47 Carthage: I agree it looks nice, but I have a feeling A4 might veiw a city there as pretty agressive
me: Not like the fat crosses overlap
Carthage: true
I'm going to log in game and have a look at that area
20:49 me: I'm just looking at how I'd plant for that corn as well
Carthage: do you have a screenshot of that area?
me: not on me
Carthage: where were you thinking of planting?
20:52 me: I'm not sure
the maps are screwing with my head a litle
20:53 the corn would likely be outer ring...but if you were to settle W SW of those sheep, I'd have to settle north of the corn in an absolute sense
20:54 Carthage: what do you mean by in an absolute sense?
me: ie on a row of tiles north of hte row of tiles the corn is on
Carthage: why?
20:55 me: to remove any overlap between your sheep city and my corn city
Carthage: I see
20:56 trying to dot map in the fog is a bit annoying
20:58 By the way, you said earlier that the other two have made their moves, right?
me: yeah
Maya have a chariot next to an Indian city guarded by a warrior
20:59 Carthage: I'm just thinking it might be easier to talk about this if the turn rolls over and I move that warrior SW
me: ok
Carthage: oh
me: I'm likely to settle about 2W of that corn
maybe 2W1S
maximum overlap is 2 tiles
but I'm not sure
also, brb
21:00 Carthage: Looking at it in game, 1N is more viable than I though at first
(1N of the sheep, btw)
21:02 me: back
21:03 ok
depends what you want
Carthage: Would you like to wait until the turn rolls over to finalize these plans?
that way we could both have more info on what the terrain around the corn is liike
21:04 me: you planning on moving that northern warrior 1SW?
Carthage: yes
me: sure, I'm ok with that
Carthage: and then most likely 1sw again
before we go, I'd just like to clarify what the timing with the tech trading is
21:05 you get alpha on t63, correct?
me: end of t62
Carthage: but the first turn you could trade is 63?
21:06 me: yes
Carthage: I'm mostly asking to try to figure out what turn we will be getting hunting on (for worker micro but also in terms of researching math)
I assume you don't have hunting, right?
21:07 me: no, but HRE do
Carthage: ok, so the timeline would be t63 we get writing from you, t64 get alpha and then can get hunting from HRE
21:08 is that right? (or in pitboss can you gift more than 1 tech in the line per turn, ie able to gift both writing and alpha same turn)
me: I'm not sure on the mechanics
21:09 Carthage: ok, well it isn't a huge deal (we can always just pre-road if it is a turn later)

[Krill]

OK, general thoughts...



I looked at the land split, if I settled the sheep and furs, compared to just giving it away for a minimum of 3 workers. What would I get from it? I'd get 3 workers, and I'd demand the two that are moving towards the sheep site already so that I got them early enough to make a difference. That would allow me to focus on getting out an early settler after the Oracle, and then chopping massively for something other than workers, ie more settlers (so 5 cities is easily attainable). As it is, that lack of food to my SE is debilitating. Im really going to need shrines to fund my cities, because I'm going to be forced to use farms to grow, instead of cottages.



Now, I would have to make sure that Carthage, and probably Ottomans as well somehow, accept that I get a city to the NE of DM, using the corn and plains sheep for food, and hopefully can overlap one of the furs as well. That would likely be the fourth city (need to rad and chop to get there, and settler from AM, slaved, is better used to hold the area next to the Horse). If I can get that city, I can easily grab the land south of the old Korean capital, which should keep me in contention for land.

Just need to keep up with the diplomacy, really, and scout out my NW asap.

[novice]

If you can get three workers and settling rights to the corn for giving up the sheep at the sheep/horse city, that sounds like a sweet deal.

Isn't the plains hill 1N of the horses a better site (and fits better with the t60 lion city) than 1SW of the horses? Seems like an awful lot of peaks to pick up just to get that stone. They could pick it up with a city 1S2E of the stone later.

Of course, not really up to you nor me where Carthage put their cities...

[Krill]

If you can get three workers and settling rights to the corn for giving up the sheep at the sheep/horse city, that sounds like a sweet deal.

Yup indeed. It's generally a cost/benefit calculation. I wouldn't sell it for one worker, and 2, well, I still don't think I'd sell for that. Definitely not for a settler, but 3, well, 3 workers from an EXP civ is basically a 2 pop slave and 3-4 turns worth of production for 2 of them, and the third is one that they already have. The settling rights to that corn is icing on the cake.

Isn't the plains hill 1N of the horses a better site (and fits better with the t60 lion city) than 1SW of the horses? Seems like an awful lot of peaks to pick up just to get that stone. They could pick it up with a city 1S2E of the stone later.

Of course, not really up to you nor me where Carthage put their cities...

Depends what you want. If you have a strategy designed that needs stone for a wonder, then the worse position could be worth it, but on the face of it I agree with you that 1N of the horse is the preferred spot. However, Carthage also want a city 3N1E of the horse that uses the sheep NW of Lakeview, which precludes settling on that spot. If they take my advice and settle 1N of the sheep (slightly worse spot, less grassland), then settling north of the horse seems a bit like a no brainer if the stone isn't important.

But you're right, not really up to either of us to control where Carthage settles their cities...unless it is in my front garden, when it becomes my right to burn them to the ground if I don't get "due compensation"

[Krill]

OK, so Carthage think they are getting that deal for a single worker, after they pasture the horse?

oh, lordy...here is their email:

Krill,

We are overjoyed to be able to reach a peaceful border agreement with your nation. We want to re-emphasize that we meant no harm by not being more proactive, and that we truly thought we were further apart than we are. So on to the agreement, we propose:

Carthage gets:

*Settling rights 1SE of the "southern sheep" as referred to in the chat.

Egypt gets:

*The Carthage worker named "Christy", to be delivered as soon as the horses are pastured at the new city.

*If you would like, we would be happy to use Christy to create a trade network between our nations before gifting her to you.

*If you have no other source of sheep, we can gift you a sheep for health reasons once we have a trade connection.

We would like to re-visit the northern sheep/corn territory discussions with you very soon. The SW-W tile of the northern sheep seems like a better site to us. We understand from our chat that you were considering a site for the corn that would have only a 2 tile overlap with that site. If that is still the case, for agreeing to allow the SW-W site, we would be willing to compromise by holding off settling it until our 6th city and agreeing not to fight a culture war over said tiles.

How does all of this sound to you?

We look forward to further cooperation with your civ. Just as an idea, would you be interested in utilizing our traits and trading a philosophical quickened- Great Scientist for some exp. - boosted workers (details to be worked out later)?

Until later,

Mr. Nice Guy for Team Nice Shot

My reply, with a calculation:

Um, guys, we never actually reached a negotiation about the number of workers, so drawing up a treaty right now is kinda jumping the gun.

For what it's worth, 1 worker is an unacceptable amount for the sheep site IMO, even if it were gifted this turn. That sheep is worth 3 food per turn, and considering you are EXP, that means you could easily cvhop a granary before growth to size 2. By turn 200, assuming you get the sheep improved by t70, that is worth 130*3=390 food, which is about an extra 18-20 population that it could grow, up to about 25 if you maximise slave potential, regardless of the other tiles worked. If you consider that population purely as slave fodder, that is therefore about an extra 600 hammers that sheep makes you, and that isn't taking into account the extra productivity of the population you'll create sooner due to the faster growth. One worker, costing you about 50 hammers, sent over once you pasture the horse isn't a comparable or even a fair sum.

I agreed to hold on the negotiation so you could confer between yourselves and uncover the extra land by the corn. I'm thankful now that we agreed to that...

I'm not shooting down the proposal, but we do need to come to a mutually agreeable number of workers, and a time line for delivery. Nothing strenuous, or overly complicated. If you want to meet in chat again, we could quickly conclude the negotiation in less than an hour, tops.

thanks in advance,

Krill

[Krill]

Met England NE of the northern Carthaginian city, and had a chat with Cyneheard:

(4:55:49 PM) Krill: Hi guys
(4:55:53 PM) Krill: just met you in game
(4:56:13 PM) Krill: Egypt here
(4:56:50 PM) England: awesome, was wondering when that was going to happen
(4:56:55 PM) England: this is Cyneheard
(4:57:17 PM) Krill: Hi mate
(4:57:57 PM) England: so, how exactly is the tech deal going to work?
(4:58:16 PM) Krill: Basically, out of the following teams:
(4:58:41 PM) Krill: France/Carthage/Egypt/Ottomans/HRE/India/Aztecs/Portugal/England
(4:58:57 PM) Krill: trade all ancient era techs so that no one has anything missing
(4:59:21 PM) Krill: Each team then researches a Classical era tech, and trades it once it comes in
(4:59:41 PM) Krill: Some teams have done ancient era techs, so they don;t get the big expensive classical era techs
(4:59:58 PM) Krill: for instance Aztecs are choked and have Archery, so they won;t be teching MC
(5:00:05 PM) Krill: Portugal have tech Sailing
(5:00:15 PM) Krill: India have teched masonry.
(5:00:35 PM) England: Ah, nice. We have stone. What is the situation on The Great Wall?
(5:00:54 PM) Krill: It's yours if you want it as far as I concwerned
(5:01:04 PM) England: of course, we'll have to meet India
(5:01:40 PM) England: so, what are you getting after Alpha? or is that your contribution?
(5:01:48 PM) Krill: Just remember that if you get a Great Spy it can't leave your borders
(5:01:59 PM) England: right
(5:02:00 PM) Krill: After Alphabet I'm getting Monotheism to speed up Monarchy
(5:02:27 PM) England: ok. What tech are we researching? We'd been told somewhat uncertainly that we're going for Monarchy
(5:03:15 PM) Krill: There is a good chance it is Monarchy
(5:03:45 PM) Krill: Just wondering, but what is your bpt at 100%, and how much gold do you have saved, and how much gold do you lose at max science?
(5:04:07 PM) England: well, we don't have writing, so libraries will come up soon once that comes in.
(5:04:12 PM) England: Let me log in and get you the rest
(5:07:14 PM) England: 74 gold, +13 gpt @ 0%, -11gpt @100% (24+1bpt)
(5:07:31 PM) England: we're still getting cottages down
(5:07:38 PM) England: and will get furs T65-67
(5:07:42 PM) Krill: Yeah, thought you would be.
(5:08:19 PM) Krill: You are a good team to research Monarchy
(5:08:25 PM) England: It looks like Sullla decided we're one of the "our nearest copper isn't ours" civs. There aren't 16 coppers on this map.
(5:10:09 PM) England: Is anyone trying to intervene on the side of the Aztec in their war?
(5:10:09 PM) England: Incan power's crazy
(5:10:19 PM) Krill: It is being sorted
(5:10:29 PM) Krill: Aztecs aren't going to get wiped out, you can be assured of that
(5:11:55 PM) England: And Alpha's going to be in next turn, right?
(5:12:30 PM) Krill: t63 is tech trade day
(5:12:58 PM) England: yay
(5:13:52 PM) England: do we have to wait a turn between getting Myst & then getting Poly from you?
(5:14:22 PM) England: I vaguely remember this being settled in PB1
(5:14:52 PM) England: do we have to wait a turn between getting Myst & then getting Poly from you?
I vaguely remember this being settled in PB1
(5:17:02 PM) England: and while we work on micro plans, when do you expect to finish Mono?
(5:18:01 PM) Krill: Sorry, aws talking with parents
(5:18:09 PM) England: ah, yes
(5:18:11 PM) England: I understand
(5:18:13 PM) Krill: jsut got a new job after second interview today, and start tomorrow...
(5:18:34 PM) England: good luck
(5:18:45 PM) England: no wonder you were prodding us to make it quick
(5:18:46 PM) England: this weekend
(5:19:49 PM) Krill: Well, the times of 2 turns per day are probably over and done with now
(5:19:58 PM) Krill: this game is about tio get very violent
(5:20:02 PM) England: just a little
(5:20:30 PM) England: we're signing NAPs with Babylon and Mali to give us some time to grow
(5:20:50 PM) England: especially since we're not going to get the copper that France is about to claim
(5:21:20 PM) Krill: You got horses right?
(5:21:35 PM) Krill: They are the more important resource
(5:21:36 PM) England: yeah
(5:21:42 PM) Krill: HBR should be finished around t70ish
(5:21:52 PM) England: and IW soon after
(5:22:16 PM) Krill: Yup
(5:22:44 PM) Krill: OK, just a heads up, but your warrior needs to keep on heading NW
(5:22:50 PM) Krill: to meet Ruff for Archery
(5:22:54 PM) England: ok, not surprising
(5:23:41 PM) Krill: Once you get HBR, slaving out those HA, and you won;t misscopper
(5:24:00 PM) England: right, we've got 3 granaries in 3 cities already. Sury's been great.
(5:25:16 PM) Krill: I like that leader
(5:25:28 PM) Krill: Mos balanced ancient era leader IMO
(5:25:54 PM) England: Babylon is trying to get them and Mali into our group. Not sure that it's terribly useful to let them in, though. 11 teams would be too many.
(5:26:39 PM) Krill: Yeah, the game is likely to hold at a 9v7; it would be hard to get everyone to agree to the additions
(5:27:32 PM) England: HRE never consulted us about France being in
(5:28:03 PM) Krill: That all hapened in like 12 hours
(5:28:46 PM) Krill: I sent an email to everyone about the heads up, but I didn't have your contact, so you must not have been forwarded the message.
(5:29:02 PM) England: aye, we were very confused when we then met France
(5:29:05 PM) England: and they told us about the group
(5:31:41 PM) Krill: Hmmh, do you know of Darrells' idea to make a world map from all of those teams in the Alliance?
(5:32:19 PM) England: no, but I like the idea
(5:33:17 PM) Krill: Well, if you take pictures of your land (with redundancy), at 1280*720 in windowed mode, and send them to me, I can forwadrd them to Darrell, who will add them to the world map, and then the world map will get sent to you via a mutual contact
(5:33:29 PM) Krill: Everyone who contributes gets the world map
(5:33:35 PM) Krill: more peoplethat contribute, better it is
(5:33:42 PM) England: ah, ok. We have a SS from Mali that probably won't be in that mode
(5:35:54 PM) England: and then we can throw in our lands
(5:43:16 PM) England: Pericles: do me a favour, send krill the following message: "Absolute Bastard. :P "
(5:43:25 PM) England: Babylon isn't the happiest of civs right now
(5:43:39 PM) Krill: Would you mind sending them this message for me?
(5:43:47 PM) England: go ahead
(5:44:38 PM) Krill: "Babylon, I'm sorry that things have worked out his way. I sent my starting warrior north, and met the civs up there. If I had sent it south, things would be different...for one, Korea would be alive, and you might already be dead "
(5:45:56 PM) England: How did you get around Korea's starting warrior?
(5:46:01 PM) Krill: "Hopefully we can still be friendly neighbours. You know that we have a tech group set up, and I fully expect you to set one up as well, but that doesn;t necessitate that we all go and wage war on one another. Just because we aren't trading techs, doesn't mean that we should cut off all diplomatic communication"
(5:46:08 PM) Krill: |They sent it somewhere
(5:46:27 PM) Krill: Are Babylon to your south BTW?
(5:46:33 PM) England: yeah
(5:46:36 PM) England: somewhat east
(5:46:39 PM) England: Mali's slightly west
(5:46:50 PM) Krill: OK, something else for you to send, if you don;t mind...
(5:47:25 PM) Krill: "I am somewhere to your NE. if you want to send a scout, warrior etc to meet me, I'm more than happy to try and meet you half way to reduce the travelling time"
(5:47:57 PM) England: he knows where you are already
(5:48:11 PM) Krill: thought as much, but doesn;t hurt to try and be friendly with them
(5:48:24 PM) England: not at all
(5:48:44 PM) England: you have War Chariots already, right?
(5:48:58 PM) Krill: Um
(5:49:02 PM) England: no horses?
(5:49:06 PM) Krill: for public infomation purposes, yes?
(5:49:12 PM) England: oh, not for Babylon's ears
(5:49:17 PM) Krill: I have horses
(5:49:21 PM) Krill: they'll be hooked next turn
(5:49:29 PM) Krill: and I could have WC the turn after that
(5:49:39 PM) Krill: I just don;t have any right now
(5:50:14 PM) Krill: but if anyone turns up on my borders, even right now, I can get a WC out before my horses get pillaged
(5:51:09 PM) England: ok, just making sure.
(5:52:25 PM) England: You know, if France wasn't in this group, they would be in trouble. We're in the perfect position to mess up their copper city, and claim it for ourselves. But it's closer for them, so we're going to wait for IW and pray that's around. Have you met France officially?
(5:52:56 PM) Krill: Not yet
(5:53:11 PM) England: should we tell them to go east?
(5:53:20 PM) Krill: and fwiw, France weren't supposed to be in the group, but Incans decided to play stupid and Rome decided to stick with Exploit
(5:53:29 PM) Krill: they know they need to go east to meet me
(5:54:36 PM) Krill: tbh I'm not fussed if they take a while.
(5:54:45 PM) Krill: They are likely going to research Currency
(5:54:55 PM) Krill: so they'll need a fair whack of gold to complete that
(5:55:16 PM) England: yeah
(5:57:22 PM) Krill: OK, just looked at the numbers for Monarchy
(5:57:46 PM) Krill: I should finish Mono end of t69
(5:57:54 PM) Krill: which gives you a further 8 turns to save gold
(5:58:12 PM) England: ok, that'll be plenty of gold; we'll be at 4 cities fairly soon
(5:58:49 PM) Krill: also
(5:58:54 PM) Krill: don;t expand beyond 5 cities
(5:58:59 PM) England: not a problem
(5:59:03 PM) England: our 6th is a lot worse than our 5th
(5:59:11 PM) Krill: it will also crash your economy
(5:59:31 PM) Krill: Set up a decent front city asap against bablyon/Mali
(5:59:36 PM) Krill: and populate that
(5:59:40 PM) Krill: with a few units
(5:59:44 PM) Krill: chariots etc
(5:59:57 PM) England: right, that's our next city, should be ~T70
(6:00:11 PM) Krill: Great
(6:03:57 PM) England: Rome's got to be well into IW
(6:04:04 PM) Krill: Yeah
(6:04:08 PM) Krill: I reckon t75 tbh
(6:04:14 PM) Krill: unless they stay small
(6:04:17 PM) Krill: in which case sooner
(6:04:26 PM) Krill: but they can;'t get as many preats, so they aren;t that big of a threat
(6:04:28 PM) England: and have a settler built when IW comes in
(6:04:47 PM) Krill: If they only have 2 cities and a settler, they aren't playing it that well
(6:04:56 PM) England: true
(6:05:06 PM) England: we had our 3rd settler built T45.
(6:05:10 PM) England: Or, 2nd settler.
(6:05:15 PM) Krill:
(6:05:21 PM) Krill: I still don;t have a third city
(6:05:37 PM) England: yeah, but you're sinking 160 hammers into the Oracle
(6:05:40 PM) England: and don't have BW
(6:05:58 PM) Krill: Yup
(6:06:03 PM) Krill: Didn;t have time to tech BW...
(6:07:21 PM) England: Oh, what are the expectations of this group after the classical eras come in?
(6:07:31 PM) Krill: That is up to everyone...
(6:07:42 PM) Krill: I only set this thing up to recieve Pottery and BW.
(6:07:47 PM) England: haha
(6:07:50 PM) Krill: I suppose you could call it overkill
(6:08:06 PM) England: You're referring to yourself as Havelock.
(6:08:07 PM) England: There is no overkill.
(6:08:33 PM) Krill: True, but everything has to be well balanced, and that balance maintained, so that life without me is worse than life with me
(6:08:58 PM) England: yeah, you're playing the part very well
(6:10:00 PM) Krill: FWIW, I don;t see this alliance holding together much beyond the Classical era
(6:10:15 PM) Krill: People are still going to want Allies
(6:10:22 PM) England: this game's big enough for 3 groups
(6:10:33 PM) Krill: but I reckon it will devolve into funding pairs and a researcher
(6:10:40 PM) Krill: oh, it is big enough for 6
(6:10:50 PM) Krill: 3 groups won;t work though
(6:10:59 PM) Krill: 2 groups will group together to destroy the third
(6:11:11 PM) Krill: so 4 is the minimum
(6:11:49 PM) Krill: most likely small groups that have mutual agreements will join other teching groups to form largert military alliances because of hte geopolitical situation
(6:13:09 PM) Krill: I mean, ideally for me, me, Carthage, and you group together as 1 group after it all falls apart etc. That would be a decent group, with you and Carthage as quite large civs, and me with multiple shrines to fund Carthage teching
(6:13:23 PM) England: and we can be funders or researchers
(6:13:34 PM) England: that's the beauty of Stock Exchanges
(6:14:11 PM) England: We'll certainly talk about that later
(6:14:20 PM) Krill: Sure.
(6:14:46 PM) England: So, can we get a list of the 9 techs that are up next? Or is it 8, and you've done your part?
(6:16:45 PM) Krill: Alphabet/Maths/Monarchy/Currency/CoL/HBR/IW/MC/Construction
(6:18:23 PM) England: no one's going for Aesthetics?
(6:18:38 PM) Krill: Well, construction or Aesthetics
(6:19:06 PM) Krill: ah, afk, need to go eat now
(6:19:14 PM) England: ok, I should as well
(6:19:16 PM) England: thanks for everything

[Krill]

Also, it looks like Ruff and the Ottomans have a nasty surprise planned for the Incans, like a chariot out of the FoW against a detached axe...that should give Incans an idea that they made hte wrong choice...

[Krill]

Pictures from this turn. Gasking survived at 0.5 health, 4/5XP. England contacted as said above, and an overview of my land prior to the Arival of Oracle. As you can see, my score is 99. I should get a further 16 points from Oracle, 12 from Alphabet, and a further 8*6=48 from the missing ancient era techs...which ups my score from 99 to 175. Completely unimportant, but shows the weirdness of score all the same.

[Krill]

Chat with Darrell:

(10:51:28 PM) Krill: Yo dudes, how goes
(10:51:34 PM) Krill: Commiserations on the loss of hte city
(10:52:33 PM) India: darrell here just reading yet another long note that says nothing from the mayans
(10:52:40 PM) India: we didn't want to but had to yada yada
(10:53:15 PM) Krill: Well, you considering them enemies until they dead, right?
(10:53:44 PM) Krill: If so, just say BS, and yada yada yourself
(10:54:24 PM) India: yeah
(10:54:34 PM) India: gonna kill exploit first cause he bribed them into it
(10:54:41 PM) India: then gonna kill the incans and romans cause they are in the way
(10:54:47 PM) India: then gonna kill the mayans
(10:54:59 PM) India: first gotta defend
(10:55:12 PM) Krill: eh, I called it before, thoasand warrior defence...
(10:55:33 PM) India: we got 3 in cap and 2 in the other city. both can whip more if needed
(10:55:38 PM) India: but rather save that pop for chariots
(10:55:48 PM) India: need the wheel and a couple of turns for our fast workers to connect it
(10:56:11 PM) Krill: Well, Wheel next turn...4 workers moved over there, and you got horses next turn...
(10:56:16 PM) Krill: I take it you do have 4 workers, right?
(10:56:21 PM) India: we have four workers converging, yeah
(10:56:30 PM) Krill: Exploit won;t know what has hit him...
(10:56:45 PM) India: then we are going t owhip and chop out 5 chariots, 4 for exploit and ne to get rid of the mayans
(10:56:56 PM) India: and they'll never see the techs exploit promised them in return for razing our city
(10:57:02 PM) Krill: Also, as you are saving gold, you can try and trade for copper off someone, to upgrade a warrior to a spear if you have to
(10:57:22 PM) India: good idea, get it from portugal for a turn or two
(10:58:20 PM) Krill: yeah, need a road though
(10:59:43 PM) Krill: Can't rely on the rivers
(11:02:08 PM) India: they will have sailing
(11:02:25 PM) India: but I think you might be right, not sure we are on the same rivers
(11:02:27 PM) Krill: FoW stops trade
(11:02:33 PM) Krill: and you aren't
(11:02:53 PM) India: yeah, thats a problem, wont have roads any time soon cause fast workers are going to be used for a blitzkrieg
(11:03:25 PM) Krill: if they uncover teh river to me, and I road 1 tile to the river, I think you will have a trade route
(11:03:30 PM) Krill: no promises on that though
(11:03:44 PM) Krill: because I only have one bank of hte river uncovered at places
(11:03:49 PM) Krill: and I don;t see you happy hour city
(11:09:10 PM) India: okay
(11:09:14 PM) India: worth a try though
(11:09:31 PM) India: do we need open borders with you for that to work?
(11:09:38 PM) India: well...we have it so its moot
(11:09:44 PM) Krill: yup
(11:10:23 PM) Krill: I won;t be able to get the road a few more turns though, and I'm low on workers, so beware, if another chariot turns up at theend of this turn, you can;t rely in this to save your skin
(11:12:03 PM) India: yeah
(11:12:07 PM) India: we have some pop to slave out warriors
(11:12:12 PM) India: but two chariots would be an issue
(11:12:31 PM) India: we can get chariots ourselves fairly quickly
(11:12:53 PM) Krill: yeah, but one of hte chariots the Mayans have has to be C1 (they would have gotten 2XP from the battle)
(11:13:02 PM) Krill: so you won;t have odds on it
(11:13:27 PM) India: sacrifice one warrior and injure it, then chariot assumign we get a hit
(11:13:36 PM) India: then another warrior to clean up if we get a bad dice roll
(11:13:40 PM) India: or warrior x2 chariot
(11:13:47 PM) India: and slave a warrior if we get screwed
(11:13:49 PM) Krill: Yup, that is the correct way to handle it
(11:13:54 PM) Krill: spear would be preferable though
(11:13:58 PM) India: yeah
(11:13:59 PM) Krill: for obvious reasons
(11:14:08 PM) India: we were one turn away from slaving a second warrior
(11:14:13 PM) India: at tshirt contest
(11:14:29 PM) Krill: This is why you have to either go full bore, or play it ultra safe on this map
(11:16:10 PM) India: yeah
(11:16:25 PM) India: I really gambled on expansion
(11:16:38 PM) India: four cities, 4 would have been 5 fast workers
(11:16:50 PM) India: oh well, MP noob...live and learn, etc.
(11:17:04 PM) India: I guess if we had done the wheel or archery insetad of masonry we would have been okay
(11:17:49 PM) Krill: Not really. You'd need a chariot plus the warrior. You;d also have to do the same for all of your cities, and have a road network. No way you would have been able to get the settler out
(11:18:14 PM) Krill: Anyway, I need to go to sleep, so cya, and good luck with the turn
(11:18:25 PM) Krill: If the turn does roll tonight, I'll try to play early on in the morning
(11:18:33 PM) Krill: take Alpha and work through it from there