RBPB3 - Gandhi of the Egyptians

[Krill]

Message from France...after they requested techs. I refused the techs of course...I'm not planning on being all that nice to Morgan. I'll be civil, but not friendly.

Hello Krill and Egyptians one and All,

We are glad to finally meet our fellow allies.

I hope it was not too forward to make a small in game request

Bringing me on to the point; we would seek guidance on a suitable technology to research, we are ignorant in the ways of the alliance but have not received any induction or advice on what to tech from currently met allies. We hope very much to be a part of a strong and committed group and hope you can enlighten us into the current group thinking.

best regards

KingMorgan
ANG_FR

[Krill]

OK, killed that SoB barb warrior next to Sto Lat across the river with the WC for a tasty 2XP. Only problem is that I got a few messages from Darrell last night that said Maya have a warrior next to SL...I'm trying to get it directed SW to meet the Byz warrior, and away from my cities...

Picture from India, showing the power chart. They figure Exploit has 6-7 warriors, and is relying on the other civs militaries to protect them. That might be why Babs aren't all that happy with Exploit right now...and Exploit somehow managed to screw up his position, researching Hunting, but not getting copper hooked, nor researching Archery. He should have either beelined Alpha, and get someone to research sailing, then trade for hunting and sailing and somehow try to trade for copper...or slaved out a settler, got Hunting and hooked his copper for himself and play self preservation. What he has done will just lead to him getting crippled.

And India are attacking Exploits' second city next turn, and if they are smart with the workers can just continue roading all the way to his capital, hopefully taking him out before he can get spears...I think he will survive until Alphabet (t72 to trade IIRC), unless he has screwed up with his warrior placement, shoved them all in BP and then loses his capital...

[Krill]

Image from Mukha...and he tells me he is an MP player that has a ladder login. Need to be careful, so far he has shwon himself to be adept at expanding (OK, Willem is a nice expander, but still, first to 4 cities), and has just put together a 7 chariot rush on Rome, who have just landed IW. I figure that even if Exploit gets Alpha t72 to trade, if Portugal goes last the Roman capital is toast, provided they don't get iron hooked t71. For Rome to get a preat slaved t71, they basically need to settle next turn, and have 2 workers roading/mining (if unrivered iron), or settle t70 for rivered iron. If they only started moving this turn from the capital, I figure that they won't get a preat, and will have at absolute most 1 spear (only by completely paranoia).

Now, if that capital falls, then Rome will need Sailing to keep iron connected to the second city...but preat, or spear...and something like 7 chariots, even 1 of those is pretty much not enough to survive the onslaught, so losing a second city is still possible.

Either way, I think Mukha should not be underestimated in this game. Seems like we have some new talent popping up...

[Krill]

Posted this earlier, but Darrell said it spoint the original post (my last one in the tech thread). here it is fo posterity:

The problems were identified 50 turns ago, but when I tried to start solving them, everyone was too lazy to do anything about it. There is the RBPB2 rule set that has been devised and works fine, without any of this declaring war BS nonsense.

And FWIW, if double moves are decided to be "wrong", then you have to make them illegal for both the defender and attacker. In which case this whole argument is stupid, because India finished their turn before Exploit logged in. The only point is they didn't end turn because they wanted to wait and see if Maya brought a huge stack out of the FoW and needed to react to that. Ending turn, and playing the turn, are two separate points that are not the same thing in the rules, so don't bother using that in an argument.

And if Exploit really has quit, we can just ask Yaz to take over.

[Krill]

So, lets see what happened this turn:

Met Maya, they want in CAN, I offered them Alpha for hindu trade and gave them advice about how to outlast the alliance structure. I don't want to piss them off, and we have an NAP until t80, which allows me to scout out babylon and then send the WC to France (hoping to steal a worker...)

Sumeria and India are at peace, and India get a settler. That pisses me off, I was happy watching them scew about...oh well. Not the strongest team in the game, and probably won't be for a while. Currently researching MC...

France, just gifted them Poly and Writing, not OB like they asked, and they have started MC as well...hopefully they won't finish it. Mukha dealt with them brilliantly...not worried about France and their crappy diplomatic efforts so far.

Monotheism at the end of turn Can't wait

And I am MMing AM to complete the granary with 7 food left to grow and overflow 9 hammers as possible into the Obelisk. Need to grow that city huge...or rather, to size 4 :D

[Krill]

Figures...Hinduism spreads to Ankh-Morpork, and then land the Jewish Holy City in Sto Lat. But thanks to Spi, I revolt to no religion for the next 5 turns, to pop the border at SL.

Arguably I shouldn't have done that, and I should have revolted to OR and Judaism (would have gotten me several extra hammers in SL), but I kinda want the extra culture in Dunmanifestin to pop the borders there those few turns sooner, grabbing hte extra fur. In 5 turns I will revolt back to Hinduism and OR though. As it is, SL really needs the borers popping asap to spot an incoming chariot stack.

Really nice thing is if I can get the temple in AM by eot t79, I can get the second Prophet by eot t84 Provided I don't settle a fifth city by then (pfffh, not likely unless chopped and I don't have the workers spare considering I need to get out WC and missionaries) then I should get a double holy city somewhere.

[Krill]

Message from England the other day, wiith a picture...

To HRE and Egypt,

(Feel free to forward to Portugal and the Ottomans if you deem it necessary, especially if Portugal is granting them techs. The tactical data doesn't need to be known, at most the time of arrival)

I see two main options for how we respond to France's message:

1) Come clean that they've been dumped. However, England is planning on a 1-move assault on Lyons with 5 chariots on T75. Our stack will include 2 workers to road 1W of their copper. France has Hunting, so if they have 1 spear in Lyons + 2 warriors or axes, our odds of success are decent. Any more than that, and our chances of success with the first turn drop dramatically. We would still be able to pillage their copper on T75 if we didn't attack. Coming clean is not our preferred option.

HRE, I've included a map with signs for our route. There's enough time for an axe started this turn @ Midas & whipped next turn to join in, to cover us in case of 2 spears. Hopefully he isn't needed, but if he is, it will save all sides many hammers in units over the turns to come. If they have sufficient workers, they could chop out a fair number of units. If we are to succeed in destroying France, removing their copper source is critical. Discussion on what to with Lyons after capture, assuming it doesn't autoraze, is needed, although our current plan was to simply raze it, and worry about a replacement settler later. If they expect an attack, they're probably preparing for it to be at Lyons.

France's copper should be online by T70 at the latest. They might be worrying about a Byzantine chariot force to their south.

2) String them along. If we tell them that they're going for Monarchy, then they'll need the religious line (but won't be able to get Mono); those 3 techs are otherwise useless. However, they might still want Writing for Libraries. The other option would be to assign them Aesthetics. If they want Fishing/Sailing, Portugal can do that. Archery, HBR, and IW are clearly no-go techs. Does anyone know if France has Horses? Their copper will be online soon enough.
Simultaneously, us and HRE could propose that a settlement agreement is needed before we move forward (including NAPs or OBs: Clearly, neither would be a good idea for us since we're about to burn down a city of theirs). And then it might just happen that our teams take too long to respond

[Krill]

Chat with Darrell:

(1:15:52 PM) Darrell: test
(1:15:57 PM) de krill of Fronce: testing...
(1:16:01 PM) de krill of Fronce: this thing better now?
(1:16:01 PM) Darrell: got it
(1:16:10 PM) de krill of Fronce: Don;t kw what happened there
(1:16:14 PM) Darrell: gettings ome oddness on the other account
(1:16:29 PM) de krill of Fronce: Yup
(1:16:32 PM) Darrell: but to summarize portugal needs 1T, so the first chariot goes ontot the sheep
(1:16:42 PM) Darrell: if the capital is lightly guarded we good for the kill next turn
(1:16:55 PM) Darrell: If not, we cover his cottage tiles
(1:17:05 PM) Darrell: we can't do both because the cottage tile is across a river
(1:17:25 PM) de krill of Fronce: Do you have a pic of the area?
(1:17:34 PM) Darrell: let me check
(1:17:38 PM) de krill of Fronce: fwiw
(1:17:45 PM) de krill of Fronce: I do;t think he'd stack warriors in his capital
(1:17:49 PM) de krill of Fronce: aand not in BP
(1:17:56 PM) de krill of Fronce: because that is just stupid
(1:17:57 PM) Darrell: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3729922/Civ4ScreenShot1017.JPG
(1:17:57 PM) de krill of Fronce: OTOH
(1:17:59 PM) Darrell: yeah
(1:18:01 PM) de krill of Fronce: that was Exploit
(1:18:08 PM) Darrell: we think he has a few warriors escorting his settler
(1:18:11 PM) Darrell: that's confirmed BTW
(1:18:16 PM) de krill of Fronce: nice gtp there...
(1:18:22 PM) Darrell: hah-hah-hah
(1:18:33 PM) Darrell: it has not been our focus lately
(1:18:56 PM) de krill of Fronce: FWIW, you shoul have killed the byz chariot last turn...
(1:19:07 PM) de krill of Fronce: Or rather
(1:19:17 PM) Darrell: sunrise thought about it
(1:19:22 PM) de krill of Fronce: ah
(1:19:24 PM) Darrell: but decided we needed to get the unit into BP
(1:19:36 PM) Darrell: so it could use the raod
(1:19:40 PM) Darrell: if you look at it, he cant run
(1:19:54 PM) Darrell: anywhere he goes that we cant hit him is towards our land
(1:19:54 PM) de krill of Fronce: what, the byz chariot?
(1:19:57 PM) Darrell: yeah
(1:20:11 PM) Darrell: Our chariot into BP so it canuse the road next turn
(1:20:18 PM) Darrell: his chariot cant run anywhere but east
(1:20:47 PM) de krill of Fronce: Well, the aim is to screw up Sumeria, only real risk is that chariot attacking a city
(1:21:07 PM) Darrell: we aren't worried about that...he is injured and we have an archer in KT and another chariot coming out of HH
(1:21:09 PM) de krill of Fronce: solong as you had 1 healthy chariot in BP you were fine, rest position to enter Sumerias land next turn and completely screw him up
(1:21:16 PM) Darrell: so he can a) run towards sumeria and die
(1:21:21 PM) Darrell: b) run towards us and live, at least for now
(1:21:37 PM) Darrell: really?
(1:21:46 PM) Darrell: cause the more we have in BP, the more we can come at sumeria with
(1:21:58 PM) Darrell: oh, but form the hill we cold just go NWx2
(1:22:02 PM) Darrell: then attack the turn after
(1:22:05 PM) de krill of Fronce: yup
(1:22:06 PM) Darrell: yeah, you are right
(1:22:10 PM) Darrell: whoops
(1:22:18 PM) de krill of Fronce: and it would still have covered the cottage
(1:22:22 PM) Darrell: yeah
(1:22:32 PM) Darrell: just nicely
(1:22:55 PM) Darrell: I cant recall, but if you cross a river with a 2 mover using the first movement point, do you still get the attack penalty?
(1:23:09 PM) de krill of Fronce: And I don;t really know how Byz have been acting towards you, but they have been playing macho against me, so I wouldn;t have had a second thought about returningh te favour
(1:23:18 PM) de krill of Fronce: no
(1:23:22 PM) Darrell: okay
(1:23:33 PM) Darrell: they have been...chilly
(1:23:51 PM) Darrell: I think if their chariot had not been hurt bad by a barb warrior we could have been in trouble
(1:24:00 PM) de krill of Fronce: Well, bob downright wanted to piss me off it seemed
(1:24:06 PM) de krill of Fronce: yup
(1:24:08 PM) Darrell: basically they act like we are at war but not declared
(1:24:24 PM) Darrell: and they made it pretty clear in the email thread that they are defending sumeria
(1:24:31 PM) de krill of Fronce: Yup
(1:24:34 PM) Darrell: did he succeed ?
(1:24:45 PM) de krill of Fronce: so beatthe fuckers up and screw with their heads. It's all they really deserve...
(1:24:54 PM) de krill of Fronce: nope
(1:25:09 PM) Darrell: hah-hah...good
(1:26:35 PM) Darrell: rome tells us they are talkign with you about joining can
(1:26:50 PM) de krill of Fronce: hahaha
(1:26:52 PM) Darrell: its funny how all these teams we offered into can and told us to piss off are now trying to get in
(1:26:54 PM) de krill of Fronce: I haven't even mete them
(1:27:00 PM) Darrell: or you cath bruid?
(1:27:01 PM) de krill of Fronce: yeah
(1:27:02 PM) Darrell: bruig?
(1:27:09 PM) de krill of Fronce: that is Portugal
(1:27:11 PM) Darrell: ah
(1:27:19 PM) Darrell: so they are talking to portugal then
(1:27:29 PM) de krill of Fronce: Yeah
(1:27:34 PM) de krill of Fronce: Wouldn;t surprise me
(1:27:37 PM) Darrell: they'll be talkign to portugals chariots pretty soon
(1:27:49 PM) de krill of Fronce: knowing that Portugal just whipped everything into the ground for that chariot army...
(1:27:52 PM) de krill of Fronce: yup
(1:27:57 PM) de krill of Fronce: I look forward to seeing that
(1:28:04 PM) Darrell: do you think Portugal can deny metal and choke until they get some axes up there?
(1:28:09 PM) de krill of Fronce: no
(1:28:16 PM) Darrell: Rome cant be stupid, they had to have a settler ready for the turn IW came in
(1:28:17 PM) de krill of Fronce: but that isn't what I think they are aiming to do
(1:28:27 PM) de krill of Fronce: I think they will capture the Roman capital
(1:28:30 PM) Darrell: they want to raze rome, but if they get there one turn too late
(1:28:33 PM) Darrell: right capture, not raze
(1:28:41 PM) Darrell: if they get there one turn too late, rome can get a spear
(1:28:47 PM) de krill of Fronce: and with the roads coming up behind them, I can easily see them bringin up some axes and making life just hellish for Rome
(1:28:53 PM) de krill of Fronce: ha
(1:29:02 PM) de krill of Fronce: 1 spear won;t save Rome unless they get insanely lucky
(1:29:09 PM) de krill of Fronce: 2 spears would though
(1:29:17 PM) Darrell: 7 chariots vs. an axe and two warriors is what we think
(1:29:18 PM) de krill of Fronce: but they won;t be able to upgrade a warrior
(1:29:20 PM) Darrell: rego got their power chart
(1:29:24 PM) Darrell: they aren't strong right now
(1:29:33 PM) Darrell: nope, but they can can an queue upgrade and whip one out
(1:29:52 PM) Darrell: thats the real fear
(1:30:00 PM) de krill of Fronce: good point on that
(1:30:02 PM) de krill of Fronce: otoh
(1:30:11 PM) Darrell: I think Portugal can pillage copper and raze the theoretical Iron city
(1:30:16 PM) Darrell: and then just wait for axes
(1:30:25 PM) de krill of Fronce: why even bother
(1:30:28 PM) de krill of Fronce: just wait for cats
(1:30:29 PM) Darrell: if the spear moves out of the 40% cultural defense to guard the copper, hit it
(1:30:33 PM) de krill of Fronce: not that far away
(1:30:37 PM) Darrell: yeah, that's true
(1:30:56 PM) Darrell: here is a funny
(1:31:02 PM) Darrell: maya signed peace with us in game
(1:31:10 PM) Darrell: after we told them we had peace with yaz
(1:31:18 PM) Darrell: I bet they demand a reload
(1:32:12 PM) de krill of Fronce: hahaha
(1:32:17 PM) de krill of Fronce: nah
(1:32:34 PM) de krill of Fronce: they can just say that you lied, and you say it was contingent on an agreement between Portugal and Sumeria...
(1:32:47 PM) de krill of Fronce: this diplomacy really is mind boggling
(1:36:32 PM) de krill of Fronce: btw
(1:36:52 PM) de krill of Fronce: is there absolutely anything I cold do to trade for your GP?
(1:37:31 PM) Darrell: yeah, sure
(1:38:00 PM) Darrell: we talked about doing some kind of time share of the shrine prophet to make up for the 5 gold/turn and 2 hammer/turn we'd be losing
(1:38:11 PM) de krill of Fronce: ok
(1:38:42 PM) Darrell: then when you got your GS, you'd just cancel that
(1:38:53 PM) Darrell: after you got it to us of course
(1:39:26 PM) de krill of Fronce: ok, I'm going to run those numbers now
(1:40:22 PM) Darrell: okay, let us know...we'd have to ask that the counter start as soon as we are able to settle the GP, so all that time he is marching is costing you
(1:40:27 PM) Darrell: but otherwise it just doesnt make sense for us
(1:41:08 PM) de krill of Fronce: how do you value the hammers?
(1:41:21 PM) Darrell: 2H = 3G?
(1:41:26 PM) Darrell: probably undervalues it tbh
(1:41:27 PM) de krill of Fronce: so 8 gpt
(1:41:29 PM) Darrell: yeah
(1:42:54 PM) de krill of Fronce: Hmmm
(1:43:04 PM) de krill of Fronce: Well, not that we can trade gold right from the get go
(1:43:11 PM) Darrell: we realize that
(1:44:02 PM) de krill of Fronce: but I can see that deal working, if I pay you the accumulated lump sum once one of us gets Currency
(1:44:22 PM) Darrell: right...then do a per turn trade after that
(1:44:29 PM) Darrell: then cancel as soon as the GS hits our border
(1:44:37 PM) de krill of Fronce: sure
(1:44:46 PM) Darrell: is the GS likely to be soon?
(1:45:03 PM) de krill of Fronce: Need to Calc that
(1:45:19 PM) Darrell: Okay...it might impact things a bit becuase if it is too long we could have Forge/Market up.
(1:45:28 PM) Darrell: I mean we aren't going to be anal about it
(1:45:31 PM) de krill of Fronce: When would you expect to get the GS?
(1:45:44 PM) Darrell: But if you are talking t100 or something...
(1:45:48 PM) Darrell: Eh...t100
(1:45:56 PM) Darrell: that would be pretty fast
(1:46:23 PM) Darrell: faster enough that even if we get forge or market up it wouldn't make enough difference to sweat
(1:46:27 PM) Darrell: faster enough
(1:46:30 PM) Darrell: love it
(1:47:20 PM) de krill of Fronce: OK. I think I can get a GS pretty fast
(1:47:41 PM) Darrell: cool
(1:47:48 PM) Darrell: get the details to me, Ill post on our forum
(1:48:53 PM) de krill of Fronce: Basically, GS would reach you, at first glance, by about t105
(1:49:06 PM) de krill of Fronce: depending on roads south from you, if you settle a southern city etc
(1:49:43 PM) Darrell: there is a Fur city we will be settling to our south
(1:49:46 PM) Darrell: but maybe not by then
(1:49:51 PM) Darrell: got to swallow what we have
(1:49:53 PM) de krill of Fronce: so you'd be looking at recieving soething in the region of 200, 220 gold
(1:50:03 PM) de krill of Fronce: well
(1:50:14 PM) de krill of Fronce: 8 gpt has to be another city for you
(1:50:17 PM) de krill of Fronce:
(1:50:30 PM) Darrell: hah-hah...yeah
(1:50:35 PM) Darrell: or pays for the ones we already founded
(1:50:55 PM) Darrell: we need the gold as much to tech metal casting and stop being a charity civ as anyting else.
(1:51:21 PM) de krill of Fronce: Well, I need to run some numbers and calc what everyone is owed and owes
(1:51:29 PM) de krill of Fronce: for instance, I'll owe you once MC is in
(1:51:34 PM) Darrell: barely
(1:51:35 PM) Darrell: but yeah
(1:51:43 PM) Darrell: MC was our only choice to pay people back IMO
(1:52:34 PM) de krill of Fronce: Yeah, and no one ever really wants to tech that
(1:52:36 PM) de krill of Fronce: and you are Ind
(1:52:40 PM) de krill of Fronce: natural fit reallly
(1:52:52 PM) de krill of Fronce: plaus it gives you an advantage once CS is down
(1:52:54 PM) Darrell: yup
(1:53:15 PM) Darrell: its disquieting that you notice these things...hope no one else does so easily
(1:53:26 PM) Darrell: not that we need to hide it, but still
(1:54:01 PM) de krill of Fronce: Yeah, not really worth hiding...
(1:56:51 PM) de krill of Fronce: btw
(1:56:54 PM) de krill of Fronce: you now have gold
(1:57:08 PM) Darrell: sweet!
(1:57:15 PM) Darrell: thanks dude, we owe you a solid
(1:57:51 PM) de krill of Fronce: Also, I'm holding onto Mono until it is needed; no reason to spread that around just yet, no one but me (and I suppose Ruff but he is building other shit) can use it. I will trade it around though once it becomes a perinent tech
(1:58:06 PM) de krill of Fronce: *pertinent
(1:58:06 PM) Darrell: well give us some missionaries so we can use OR
(1:58:09 PM) de krill of Fronce: yup
(1:58:20 PM) de krill of Fronce: You know the amount of peple that want missionaries off me?
(1:58:30 PM) de krill of Fronce: All these stored forest chops are going into missionaries it seems
(1:58:51 PM) Darrell: you are going to be swimming in gold
(1:59:27 PM) de krill of Fronce: I wish I could replace my leader head with Scrouge McDuck
(1:59:44 PM) Darrell: hah-hah...that'd be hilarious
(2:00:14 PM) Darrell: you better get your military up man...people are going to drool
(2:00:57 PM) de krill of Fronce: Dude
(2:01:04 PM) de krill of Fronce: I don;t have a single strat resource
(2:01:17 PM) Darrell: horse
(2:01:18 PM) de krill of Fronce: I have a grand total of 2 warriors in my land
(2:01:20 PM) de krill of Fronce: nah
(2:01:26 PM) de krill of Fronce: that is with pportugal right now
(2:01:30 PM) Darrell: dear lord
(2:01:39 PM) de krill of Fronce: I'm living on my charming personality
(2:01:51 PM) Darrell: sounds like it didnt work so well with byz
(2:02:00 PM) Darrell: you think they know you dont have your horse?
(2:02:20 PM) Darrell: I think protugal has enough chariots, you might want to get it back
(2:02:38 PM) de krill of Fronce: I will do, once the 10 turns is up
(2:02:45 PM) de krill of Fronce: not worth declaring war to break the trade
(2:02:55 PM) de krill of Fronce: meh
(2:03:00 PM) Darrell: i guess you coudl do that in an emergency
(2:03:00 PM) de krill of Fronce: I can trade for copper
(2:03:04 PM) Darrell: even better
(2:03:09 PM) de krill of Fronce: and have enough gold to upgrade a warrior
(2:03:16 PM) Darrell: the age of chariots is pretty much over with CAN's hunting monopoly soon to end
(2:03:20 PM) de krill of Fronce: and can now chop out a spear in 1 turn
(2:03:39 PM) de krill of Fronce: and it is a holy city they would be attacking into, on a hill
(2:03:43 PM) de krill of Fronce: not that they know this
(2:03:45 PM) de krill of Fronce: well
(2:03:50 PM) de krill of Fronce: will do now maya have seen the city
(2:05:20 PM) Darrell: 1 spear should be enough
(2:05:36 PM) Darrell: I dont think they ahve much your way, they whipped unit and sent them towards us IMO
(2:05:41 PM) Darrell: not soon enough to matter
(2:05:53 PM) de krill of Fronce: probably
(2:06:05 PM) de krill of Fronce: the real problem they have is the layout of forests and mountains around me
(2:06:14 PM) de krill of Fronce: Only 2 ways in from the south
(2:06:31 PM) de krill of Fronce: both with sentries
(2:07:14 PM) Darrell: so you'll have tons of time to react
(2:07:18 PM) de krill of Fronce: yup
(2:07:26 PM) de krill of Fronce: and got forests roaded for quick chopping
(2:07:37 PM) de krill of Fronce: not a solid position, but good enough

[Krill]

So...8gpt for the use of a GP? YES PLEASE!

I'll say I'll get the GS by t105 to their lands, which is a true enough timeline if I revolted to caste and pushed it out of my capital at size 7. However, I'm more likely to just push out a fourth Prophet (inc traded one) from AM and see what I can do with it. Really tempted to bulb DR, just for the hell of it, and try for Versaille...but not that likely. It's kinda cool that I can use both AM and DM for GPP production in this game, gives me a few options...and the chopping, ooh my...Getting those workers from Carthage put me right back in this game economically.

[Krill]

Met Inca after they moved last turn, and met Babylon this turn. Down to needing just Sumeria, Rome and Mali for full contacts, so only 2 to gop

(5:39:11 PM) Babylon: Nice to finally meet you mate
(5:39:21 PM) Krill: oh, we met now. Woot
(5:39:42 PM) Babylon: yep, you might not be able to see the warrior as i saw him with move 1 then chucked him in france's general direction after
(5:39:58 PM) Krill: cool
(5:40:00 PM) Babylon: figure i must be damned close to em
(5:40:03 PM) Krill: I'm trying to find france as well
(5:40:10 PM) Krill: so any help with that is greatly appreciated
(5:40:17 PM) Babylon: im guesstimating around 4-5 tiles west
(5:40:30 PM) Krill: That would be great
(5:40:40 PM) Babylon: i'll head that way tho and keep you informed
(5:40:45 PM) Krill: thanks
(5:40:55 PM) Krill: How is everything in your part of hte owrld?
(5:40:57 PM) Babylon: the trades have been flying around heracles today
(5:41:09 PM) Babylon: or CANT, as you call themn
(5:41:20 PM) Krill: I prefer CANT
(5:41:23 PM) Krill: less typing
(5:41:33 PM) Babylon: i took alpha, wont make any difference since sumeria will be dead any turn now
(5:41:44 PM) Babylon: rejected byz' trades
(5:41:57 PM) Krill: ok
(5:42:06 PM) Babylon: traded writing over to mali so they can go for calendar quicker
(5:42:13 PM) Babylon: or aesthetics or whatever it was they were after
(5:42:22 PM) Krill: thanks for that. Have you met Carthage, for maths?
(5:42:29 PM) Babylon: not yet.
(5:42:30 PM) Krill: I think Calendar suits them better
(5:42:36 PM) Krill: everyone needs it
(5:42:47 PM) Babylon: i dont know where there nearest unit is
(5:43:07 PM) Babylon: i have two scouts out- the woody 2 warrior by you and an axemen just approaching rome
(5:43:11 PM) Babylon: *man
(5:43:20 PM) Krill: ok
(5:43:43 PM) Krill: I think Carthage is NW of you
(5:43:44 PM) Babylon: chariots are a no-no for me so scouting is awkward. gonna trade for one with mali to ease the pain though
(5:43:46 PM) Babylon: yeah they are
(5:43:56 PM) Babylon: i'll liaise with england
(5:43:56 PM) Krill: I'll see if they have a scout to meet you with
(5:43:59 PM) Krill: cool
(5:44:22 PM) Babylon: mali dont currently have any scouts anywhere near you that im aware of
(5:44:30 PM) Krill: With the sheer amount of diplo in this game, talking with those any further than 5 hours behind is hard via chat
(5:44:32 PM) Babylon: unless your scout by byz can make it to my lands
(5:44:40 PM) Krill: hmmm
(5:44:44 PM) Krill: hopefully it can
(5:44:54 PM) Krill: it is skirting around the north of byz and staying out of sight
(5:44:57 PM) Babylon: offer OB in game matey and you can have safe passage thru
(5:45:09 PM) Babylon: byz have settled towards us and us towards them
(5:45:22 PM) Babylon: so you should see Leviticus soon
(5:45:31 PM) Krill: ok
(5:45:40 PM) Krill: I think my warrior is like 5N of hte capital
(5:45:42 PM) Krill: something like that
(5:45:55 PM) Babylon: ah so you're not too far away
(5:46:15 PM) Babylon: maybe 7 tiles or so from babylonian culture
(5:46:23 PM) Krill: cool
(5:46:33 PM) Krill: hopefully my warrior doesn't get run over
(5:46:41 PM) Babylon: i don't think it will
(5:46:48 PM) Babylon: i've tried to ensure it won't anyhow
(5:47:04 PM) Babylon: i've told byz off and told them to go apologise
(5:47:12 PM) Krill: Not heard anything yet
(5:47:25 PM) Krill: Pretty sure they are being just a little...stubborn
(5:47:30 PM) Babylon: quite possibly
(5:47:39 PM) Babylon: theyre just generally miffed at how the game has gone for them
(5:47:52 PM) Babylon: which is understandable
(5:48:23 PM) Babylon: they believed everything to be rosy with a row of friendly civs, and they were trying to set up deals where we help them towards guilds and they'll supply us with cata's etc
(5:48:26 PM) Babylon: be a sort of military arm
(5:48:40 PM) Babylon: then one of the hydra members slipped a bit
(5:48:58 PM) Babylon: i found out a bit of info, put the rest together and realised most of the world had allied together and we hadnt met most of them
(5:49:18 PM) Babylon: told the others who werent sure if i was right, which it turns out i was. and they're rosy garden went down in flames lol
(5:49:56 PM) Krill: YEah, this game isn't going to be a nice and gentle building game.
(5:50:14 PM) Krill: Better be ready to start smacking people around pretty hard, pretty soon
(5:50:32 PM) Babylon: we have sufficient military at moment
(5:50:38 PM) Babylon: not enough to wipe someone out with
(5:50:45 PM) Babylon: but enough to deter anyone attacking us
(5:51:19 PM) Babylon: so, post-hydra, how you see the land lying?
(5:51:44 PM) Krill: Well, I don't know how long the CAN will last
(5:51:56 PM) Krill: Sumeria should die soon
(5:52:02 PM) Babylon: i guess it will die as a large unit after the next tech trades
(5:52:20 PM) Krill: hopefully before
(5:52:40 PM) Babylon: well, from what i understand from england
(5:52:48 PM) Babylon: if it falls how they hope it will
(5:53:04 PM) Babylon: it'll split largely in two with india and co in the south vs us northern civs
(5:53:28 PM) Babylon: if that's the case, our 'group' would certainly be stronger tech-wise by a BIG margin
(5:53:41 PM) Krill: yup
(5:53:56 PM) Krill: I don;t really want to support the large civs with free tech...
(5:53:58 PM) Babylon: india and aztec's economy can't exactly be flying
(5:54:04 PM) Krill: yeah
(5:54:05 PM) Babylon: portugal expanded early also
(5:54:14 PM) Krill: India would be on strike now if it weren't for city capture gold
(5:54:35 PM) Babylon: well, if they keep sumeria's capital
(5:54:39 PM) Babylon: which i presume they will
(5:54:45 PM) Krill: they have kept it
(5:54:51 PM) Babylon: their research will be negligible for the foreseeable future
(5:54:57 PM) Babylon: oh is it taken already?
(5:55:07 PM) Krill: yeah
(5:55:10 PM) Babylon: fair enough
(5:55:27 PM) Babylon: they're now in a pb1 early inca situation- which you know VERY well
(5:55:35 PM) Babylon: if we supply them with tech they'll be immense
(5:55:48 PM) Babylon: if not, well, have fun with your sprawling bankrupt empire
(5:55:52 PM) Krill: yeah
(5:56:10 PM) Krill: and on these settings, they aren't going to get out of bankruptcy for a while
(5:56:17 PM) Babylon: agreed
(5:56:26 PM) Babylon: the maintenance, predictably, is huge
(5:56:34 PM) Babylon: i see the whinging in pb2 and just shake my head heh
(5:56:36 PM) Krill: so I personally would appreciate it if the CAn "got broken" before the big techs got researched
(5:56:42 PM) Krill: oh yah
(5:56:58 PM) Babylon: ha i came up with operation can opener before
(5:57:08 PM) Babylon: was kinda organising heracles/cant
(5:57:25 PM) Krill: Wondered what that involved...
(5:57:30 PM) Krill:
(5:57:53 PM) Babylon: ha no comment
(5:57:57 PM) Babylon: anyhow
(5:58:13 PM) Babylon: so you see carthage, england, mali, babylon and egypt as our 'closer' group i guess?
(5:59:08 PM) Krill: I can see small friendships holding together, forming larger teching groups
(5:59:18 PM) Krill: ie along the lines sunrise/regoarrarr
(6:00:21 PM) Krill: and the shadyforce/dsp/mhk groups
(6:00:53 PM) Krill: but the civs you mentionned would be a good working group for tech co-operation
(6:01:07 PM) Krill: but tbh, I wouldn't mind added Maya
(6:01:13 PM) Krill: and making sure Byz is dead
(6:01:39 PM) Krill: Maya seem like a decent group of players, we have chatted abit.
(6:01:41 PM) Babylon: you're talking past tense?
(6:01:47 PM) Krill: *adding
(6:01:50 PM) Babylon: Maya are extremely nice guys
(6:02:00 PM) Krill: I'm sitting on a sofa with a laptop, in a caravan in Wales
(6:02:08 PM) Krill: not the most comfortable typing positin
(6:02:11 PM) Babylon: i would be happy with their involvement as would, i expect, mali
(6:02:18 PM) Babylon: ha fair enough
(6:02:31 PM) Babylon: i would offer my sincere apologies but that could well eb your 'thing'
(6:02:40 PM) Krill: nah
(6:02:52 PM) Krill: It really isn't
(6:03:18 PM) Krill: but I thought I would humour my parents, go over and look after my sister while they deal with some business tomorrow
(6:03:28 PM) Babylon: ah fair enough
(6:03:30 PM) Krill: not like I had any other plans for the weekend
(6:03:57 PM) Babylon: carthage are currently in english lands
(6:03:59 PM) Babylon: on way to us
(6:04:01 PM) Babylon: which is handy
(6:04:07 PM) Krill: awesome
(6:04:17 PM) Babylon: i'll just keep saving gold for now then
(6:04:39 PM) Krill: well, when is your academy due?
(6:04:43 PM) Babylon: next turn
(6:04:49 PM) Krill: but not much gold saved?
(6:04:56 PM) Babylon: 130~
(6:05:02 PM) Krill: I don;t really want you wasting gold btw
(6:05:04 PM) Krill: ok
(6:05:12 PM) Babylon: i dont intend to waste it
(6:05:17 PM) Krill: hopefully you meet carthage in the next 7ish turn then
(6:06:52 PM) Babylon: fingers crossed
(6:06:57 PM) Krill: yup
(6:06:59 PM) Babylon: does carthage have alpha?
(6:07:05 PM) Krill: yes
(6:07:12 PM) Babylon: great thanks
(6:07:22 PM) Babylon: means mali can get alpha asap
(6:07:31 PM) Krill: maths
(6:07:42 PM) Babylon: yeah that's the ticket
(6:07:46 PM) Babylon: i meant maths
(6:09:37 PM) Krill: well, just rome mali and sumeria to meet
(6:09:48 PM) Krill: looks like not long until I meet everyone...
(6:09:51 PM) Babylon: not bad at all
(6:09:54 PM) Babylon: im missing loads
(6:10:09 PM) Babylon: carthage, HRE, ottos, france, india, rome, aztec
(6:10:31 PM) Krill: ouch
(6:10:38 PM) Krill: aztecs seem to be missing loads
(6:10:54 PM) Babylon: i think most civs from my row have pretty much been excluded from rest of the world
(6:11:04 PM) Krill: yeah, you have
(6:11:18 PM) Babylon: you worried about byz?
(6:11:33 PM) Krill: not really
(6:11:42 PM) Babylon: if it helps
(6:11:50 PM) Krill: I'm in a good enough position to weather a storm if they through up to 4 chartiots at me
(6:11:50 PM) Babylon: i'd say they are significantly more likely to attack me than you
(6:12:03 PM) Krill: ah, do you have copper?
(6:12:06 PM) Babylon: yes
(6:12:24 PM) Krill: well, if you just got hunting your safe
(6:12:33 PM) Babylon: and soon 2 axe and 1 spear. worst case scenario i can whip out 3 spears from scratch
(6:12:39 PM) Babylon: tho i'd rather not waste the pop
(6:13:16 PM) Krill: yeah
(6:13:21 PM) Krill: so basically not worth worrying about
(6:13:30 PM) Babylon: not in slightest
(6:13:49 PM) Babylon: and if i get even a bit worried (i have charts and plenty of vis) i can get mali to send units over
(6:14:13 PM) Babylon: hmm do england have alpha? wouldnt mind archery to get a bowmen about for generic defence
(6:14:31 PM) Babylon: cheap so useful for HR
(6:15:04 PM) Krill: Hmm, I think they'll get alphabet once they get archery
(6:15:10 PM) Krill: not sure when they get archery though
(6:15:26 PM) Babylon: i was under impression they had it already?
(6:16:13 PM) Krill: Can you keep a secret? ie not tell anyone else (even Mali?)
(6:16:23 PM) Krill: and before you answer
(6:17:03 PM) Krill: if you think that feeding tech to India is a bad idea, then you want to make sure this secret stays secure
(6:17:35 PM) Babylon: i dont feel inclined to feed tech to india
(6:17:48 PM) Babylon: so, yes, if you want this to be totally confidential, you have my word
(6:18:04 PM) Krill: ok, there are alot of teams that don't like France
(6:18:18 PM) Babylon: yup
(6:19:01 PM) Krill: They have been quite rude, demanding tech and such, favourable border treaties
(6:19:07 PM) Krill: this you may of heard about
(6:19:12 PM) Babylon: indeed i have
(6:19:26 PM) Krill: however, they think they are going to recieve certain techs
(6:19:31 PM) Babylon: no need to poison me against France, they're my northern neighbours
(6:19:31 PM) Krill: and they aren't
(6:19:38 PM) Babylon: yup
(6:19:53 PM) Krill: so, we are just keping it stum, stringing them along abit
(6:20:02 PM) Krill: karma
(6:20:30 PM) Krill: so the longer we can keep them messing about doing nothing useful, the better
(6:21:17 PM) Babylon: ha i figured that was pretty much the case
(6:21:25 PM) Babylon: their score was barely increasing
(6:21:34 PM) Babylon: so it was that or they had no contacts
(6:21:43 PM) Krill: actually both
(6:21:51 PM) Krill: they really sucked at scouting
(6:21:55 PM) Krill: they only met me 3 tuns ago
(6:22:08 PM) Babylon: and never met me
(6:22:34 PM) Krill: yeah
(6:23:24 PM) Babylon: so you and india playing nice for now then?
(6:23:33 PM) Babylon: you need to be careful what you say to byz by the way
(6:23:49 PM) Krill: I'm probably not going to speak to byz at all tbh
(6:23:58 PM) Krill: and just treat it as a cold war
(6:24:20 PM) Krill: tbh, I'm trying to get some teams to work Maya
(6:24:29 PM) Krill: which would mean you and Maya could split Byz
(6:24:42 PM) Krill: and I can try to send some units down, but I'm still recovering form the Oracle
(6:24:51 PM) Babylon: if you get Maya on board
(6:24:55 PM) Babylon: we can discuss that further for sure
(6:25:12 PM) Krill: I don't think I can get Maya into hte CAN
(6:25:22 PM) Krill: other teams don't want to work with them, happy with the size as it is
(6:25:39 PM) Krill: which is one of hte reasons breaking hte CAN is something I wouldn;t consider a bad thing
(6:25:52 PM) Babylon: ok, fair enough
(6:25:57 PM) Babylon: im glad you agree
(6:26:05 PM) Babylon: what about suggesting to Maya they do metal casting
(6:26:13 PM) Babylon: we feed them what tech we can
(6:26:22 PM) Krill: hmmm
(6:26:22 PM) Babylon: they're probs gonna be fastest there from what i gather?
(6:26:27 PM) Krill: yeah
(6:26:31 PM) Krill: India are doing MC...
(6:26:37 PM) Krill: so that is a good replacement
(6:26:39 PM) Babylon: so maya will beat them by a landslide
(6:26:42 PM) Krill: yeah
(6:26:55 PM) Krill: they can probably get some good stuff for that
(6:27:04 PM) Krill: the other option as I say it was Aesthetics
(6:27:08 PM) Krill: *saw
(6:28:35 PM) Babylon: ok well i would be very happy with the MC option
(6:28:52 PM) Babylon: but aesthetics is fine too
(6:28:58 PM) Krill: Do you want to suggest that to them? I'm happy with that, if we can break the CAN it works well
(6:29:08 PM) Krill: well, have you met HRE yet?
(6:29:12 PM) Krill: or Mali?
(6:29:24 PM) Krill: or have you met Ottomans?
(6:29:42 PM) Krill: Need to meet otto asap, they just got IW, unless you can get that from Rome
(6:29:58 PM) Babylon: yeah ill sort it with maya
(6:30:11 PM) Babylon: i've met Mali- we practically share land
(6:30:14 PM) Babylon: we're insanely close
(6:30:21 PM) Krill: sorru, i meant have mali met hre
(6:30:27 PM) Babylon: yes they have
(6:30:34 PM) Babylon: i can get IW from rome but its kinda bad form
(6:30:49 PM) Krill: well, that one is up to you.
(6:31:10 PM) Krill: but the sooner hte can breaks, the sooner you need to trade for HBR and IW from CAN members
(6:31:22 PM) Babylon: yeah i need IW especially asap
(6:31:26 PM) Babylon: want my silver online
(6:35:31 PM) Babylon: im offski mate. have a good one
(6:35:39 PM) Krill: cya around
(6:36:04 PM) Babylon: grab OB with me when you log in next
(6:36:19 PM) Krill: ah, ok