RBPitboss #2 Athlete4life10 & Kalin

[athlete4life10]

hmmm...thanks for the answers...

so based on that it's almost better to whip before you grow rather than after, though getting to size 4 for a 2 pop whip is probably better then a 1 pop whip and growing back to 3 straight away...more math for me...YAY

[Cyneheard]

Sort of. Being able to regrow population after a whip is nice, but it's also useful to grow population before the whip. The only time it makes a difference is if you have a granary. If you build a granary before the food box is half-full, then your next population growth will only leave the food box half-empty. Also, growing to size 5 with a granary, then whipping down to 4, gives you 1 extra food from the granary's savings than whipping from 4 to 3, then regrowing up to 4.

And, yes, 2-pop whips are usually preferred, only to limit the happiness costs of food-to-hammer conversions.

[athlete4life10]

TY again Cyneheard

Also, growing to size 5 with a granary, then whipping down to 4, gives you 1 extra food from the granary's savings than whipping from 4 to 3, then regrowing up to 4.

Not sure I understand that part of it but that's all good. And one more question.

The pre-req bonus is 1.2 for techs if you know all the prereqs right? For instance research mining and then BW you would take your base commerce (+1 free) then multiply it by 1.2 and you get your total commerce for research at 100% right?

Oh and is crabs a 3 or 4 commerce tile when Fin?

[athlete4life10]

Well here's what I've been able to figure. This is based on the crabs being a 4 commerce tile and the pre-req bonus for having all pre-req's is 1.2. If that is not the case (as I believe the crabs are only 3 commerce) then the #'s will be off a bit but there's lots of time for fine tuning and this is only my first attempt.

Turn 6 fishing comes in, swap to WB and start mining.
Turn 8 grow to size 2 and work rice and furs.
Turn 12 mining is in, start BW.
Turn 18 WB completes, resume warrior, work rice and crabs.
Turn 19 grow to size 3 and work rice, crabs and furs.
Turn 21 warrior comes in, start another warrior.
Turn 23 BW comes in, start Pottery and adopt Slavery.
Turn 26 grow to size 4, start a worker, work rice/crabs/furs/forested tile.
Turn 27 2-pop whip the worker and overflow into warrior, working rice and clams
Turn 28 complete warrior and start another warrior or worker....

So at Turn 28 we have a WB, 2 warriors + Starting warrior = 3 and a worker. We could then chop out a worker then grow with a warrior/granary/barracks build or grow while building warrior/granary/barracks and then chop/whip another worker. A 2nd worker is based upon the chat I had with Kalin previously. A settler would soon or immediately follow a 2nd worker.

[Krill]

Crabs are zero commerce. The coast is worth a base 2 commerce.

[athlete4life10]

k thanks Krill, essentially it works to 3 commerce being a Fin civ...that's what I needed to know. So with the above plan it's probably by T30 that we're whipping. Again of course assuming the pre-req bonus is 1.2 for knowing all pre-reqs.

[novice]

k thanks Krill, essentially it works to 3 commerce being a Fin civ...that's what I needed to know. So with the above plan it's probably by T30 that we're whipping. Again of course assuming the pre-req bonus is 1.2 for knowing all pre-reqs.

Isn't it 1.2 for each known pre-req or something like that?

[Cyneheard]

Not quite. It's 1.2 for each "optional" pre-req. In the tech file, each tech has a space for "and" pre-req(s), and "or" pre-reqs. If the "or" list is non-empty, then you must have at least 1 of the "or" pre-reqs to research the tech.
If on the tech screen, the pre-req has an arrow pointing to the tech (like for Pottery, Fishing and Agri), then those give the 1.2 bonus. However, the Wheel is an "and" pre-req, and therefore does not give the bonus. For BW, Mining does give a bonus, because even though there's only 1 pre-req total, it's an "or" pre-req, as you can see from the tech screen. Nearly all techs have at least 1 "or" pre-req. Divine Right is an exception, others exist, I believe. (Flight?)

[athlete4life10]

Not quite. It's 1.2 for each "optional" pre-req. In the tech file, each tech has a space for "and" pre-req(s), and "or" pre-reqs. If the "or" list is non-empty, then you must have at least 1 of the "or" pre-reqs to research the tech.
If on the tech screen, the pre-req has an arrow pointing to the tech (like for Pottery, Fishing and Agri), then those give the 1.2 bonus. However, the Wheel is an "and" pre-req, and therefore does not give the bonus. For BW, Mining does give a bonus, because even though there's only 1 pre-req total, it's an "or" pre-req, as you can see from the tech screen. Nearly all techs have at least 1 "or" pre-req. Divine Right is an exception, others exist, I believe. (Flight?)

OK, so if I understand this correctly, BW would get a 1.2 bonus because you have to have mining in order to get it though mining is defined as an "or" pre-req not an "and" due to the arrow. If I research pottery while I have both fishing and agriculture I would get a 1.4 bonus but if I had only one of those 2 I would only get 1.2. Is that correct?

[athlete4life10]

Well this is interesting...India is now founded, and we are no longer alone at 19 for GNP. Seeing as we're the only creative civ that means and we were alone at 19 prior to India being founded, India must be researching a base commerce of 13 bpt (including the free one). Could I be right about them moving to get a certain tile in their BFC to secure a religion?

It also looks like India is the only capital with 8 tiles of land to start with so it's probably still coastal unless it's on a lake.