[SPOILERS] By the Rivers of Babylon, FIN has no effect (on krovice)

[novice]

I dunno if I'd go so far as to say settlers are precious resources when we can have like 12 cities and settlers by T90. I'd actually say that I value the defenders and workers more, inasmuch that we need to be really smart with them.

What I was trying to say is that we need to be smart about the settlers too. We want to settle cities to claim as much land and as many resources as possible, without going bankrupt in the process. So settling sparsely, and for key resources, and then growing vertically until we can afford to fill in the non-critical cities, makes sense.

[Krill]

Well, I agree with you, but with that many settlers we're going to get close to bankrupt no matter what we do. I think we can just about make it to Alphabet if we are smart though (so building Research and OB), just...we also need to consider the potential for competition to settle those islands.

And if we are settling those islands, we're going to have to fog bust them and clear out barbs, and somehow shuttle over workers, which is going to be a whole new problem.

I think we need to throw 2 settlers down the peninsula if we intend to claim the clam, because otherwise we lose it to the guy that has already improved that copper. And we want the horse/ivory anyway. Everything else I want to send to the islands...but we still want the filler city up and running because that city can work all the cottages and as said, we need the commerce. And then there is the time frame we can get the galley out of FR to start moving onto the southern island anyway...so we do need to consider what city sites are going to be available in the time frame of when the settlers are ready.

[Krill]

Considering worker allocation, I think if we accept that the two workers at WH farm the chopped tile and then move to cottage at OT, there would be sufficient workers to road all the way to the sheep/clam site. Those 2 workers plus the one left at OT would get enough cottages down and then only have to make 15 worker turns worth of roads. The rest of the time is easily spent on chopping 2 forests for work boats and hooking the horse, ivory and sheep. Could move the worker from DS over to the island and then take one of the three roading workers shortly afterwards.

FR gives up 2 workers to TtL, enough to get cottages down there and then move onto FP, and RC will be fine with 1 worker as it has the lakes. The main difficulty is getting the 2 workers from FR to TtL without wasting too many turns IMO.

[Krill]

Something else to consider. The settler comes out of DS on eot T82. The previous settler comes out of OT eot T78 (if whipped at size 4). WH can regrow to size 5 and whip a galley on T81; the earliest it can single whip is T79 but this means not working the gold for 2 turns or chopping a further forest (and thus workers out of position to do much else).

This means the earliest can settle island city is T82 if founding directly on the sign using the settler from OT and messing with WH gold. If getting hte settler from DS then it can be settled T85 (if the galley is moved to the tile 66 of DS and load on T83, moving 96, T84 moving 63 and unloading and then T85 moving 3 settle).

The other benefit to using the DS settler for the island is that it means can settle for horses and ivory 5 turns sooner, provided the roads are in place...which they can be quite easily, using one worker to cottage at OT and then putting 2 roads down on the tile 7 and 5 of the horse tile (yes 5 of horse tile means the horse tile...). So ivory would be hooked significantly quicker which means opportunity to work more cottages comes a bit sooner.

I'm kind of torn on this, because the earlier island city helps in a lot of ways, never mind actually claiming the land...but the final nail in the coffin for rushing out the settler from OT up there was the work boat for the fish. If the galley is 2 pop whipped at WH, it is possible to get the work boat built out of WH whilst growing (and with the overflow out of the galley) without needing any further input. That means the island city can grow to 2 and whip its own worker.

tl;dr I think city 8 should be horse city and city 9 should be northern island city.

[novice]

Sounds reasonable.

[Krill]

*cries* at the rate I'm going there won't be any more MM to think about...

The MM for WH and the horse/ivory city seems to vary depending on if the new city is 1 or 12 of the ivory, but in reality it only changes the worker MM for chopping the forest for the work boat. Settling 1 of the ivory actually gets the fish hooked 1 turn sooner as don't have to wait for the border pop to chop the forest.

The basic MM for WH is as follows, starting at T75 with worker 4 south of the rice and worker 8 in the city

• WH: T75: W4 farm, W8 1 road/cancel, build Granary 10/26F 62/60H
  
• WH: T76: W4 farm, W8 2 farm, build workboat 16/26F 6/30H (DS warrior moves 33)
  
• WH: T77: W4, W8 farm/fin, 22/26F 10/30H (DS warrior moves 9)
  
• WH: T78: W4, W8 move 41 cottage/cancel, grow@4, 15/28F 14/30H (DS warrior enters WH)
  
• WH: T79: Work rice/fish/gold/farm 22/28F 18/30H
  
• WH: T80: Build Galley, grow@5, 15/30F 4/50H
  
• WH: T81: Slave Galley, work rice/fish/gold 21/26F 58/50H
  
• WH: T82: Galley move 71, build work boat grow@4 14/28F 30/30H
  
• WH: T83: (Move DS settler 39 onto Galley) Galley move 93, load bowman in WH, work boat move 63 build bowman work rice/fish/gold/farm 21/28F 4/25H (question: I'm not entirely sure this works due to slaving on T74, in which case...build a settler this turn as doesn't suck up food, and go grow on bowman on T84+T85)
  
• WH: T84: Move work boat 33 move galley 63, move bowman 6, move settler 6 if safe, grow@5 14/30F 8/25H
  
• WH: T85: worker rice/fish/gold/farm/forest build settler 14/30F 12/100H

The settler could be triple slaved at size 6 on T91 (sucking up 1 unhappy face once at size 6) or built at size 5 eot T90. This is assuming settler for 1 turn at size 4. Compare to eot T88 for settler at DS. Using the galley, it is possible to use this settler to found the clam/sheep site T94; if it walks there found T96 assuming road on sheep; obviously travelling via galley does not need sheep road.


The worker MM from T77, assuming settling 1 of ivory, including worker 2:

• OT: T77: W2 move 6 road
  
• OT: T78: W2 road/fin, whip settler (unknown food, hammers)
  
• OT: T79: W2 move 3 road, W4 move 3 road/fin, W8 move 33 road/cancel, settler move 933
  
• City 8 (C8): T80: W2 road/fin, W4 move 3 road/fin, W8 move 6, settler move 36 settle city 8, work horse, build workboat 2/22F 2/30H
  
• C8: T81: W2 pasture, W4 move 36 pasture, W8 chop, 4/22F 4/30H
  
• C8: T82: W2, W4 pasture/fin, W8 chop, work horse 6/22F 8/30H
  
• C8: T83: W2 69 road/fin, W4 69 road/fin, W8 chop/fin, 8/22F 32/30H
  
• C8: T84: W2 camp, W4 camp, W8 move 393, work boat move 12, build (Granary/bowman/spear/axe/whatever) 10/22F 6/XH
  
• C8: T85: W2, W4 camp/fin, W8 road, work boat net fish, work fish, 15/22F 7/XH

If you want different MM that focuses on getting the ivory online:

• C8: T81 W2 move 69 camp, W4 move 36 pasture, W8 chop, 4/22F 4/30H
  
• C8: T82 W2 camp, W4 move 69 camp/cancel, W8 chop, work grass forest, 5/22F 7/30H
  
• C8: T83 W2 camp/fin, W4 road, W8 chop/fin, work ivory, 7/22F 30/30H
  
• C8: T84 W2 move 14 pasture, W4 road/fin, W8 2 pasture, work boat move 12, build bowman 9/22F 3/25H
  
• C8: T85 W2 pasture/fin, W4 move 3, W8 move 77 cottage/cancel, work fish, 14/22F 2/25H

I don't think it's worth it, getting the horse online is more important. DS doesn't want to grow to size 6, and the only other cities that happiness matters at at TtL and OT; WH needs the happiness on T83 or it doesn't matter. FP, RC, FR happiness limits are not yet reached. Judging by the completion dates for the ivory camp, I think that one of the workers should be moved to the island via the galley, ideally the the chopping worker. One worker can return to OT to cottage, and the third worker, one of the pasture workers, can go and road to the clam/sheep site if we want it, and it can time a chop to land once the city is settled...or more likely, after the sheep is pastured. Using the galley to found the city means settle T94, sheep pastured T97, chop T98 (immediately hit 30 hammers) and then hook the clam T99. Takes a while longer to hit size 2 though, but no more worker attention needed at that point and hte worker can go somewhere it is more useful.

As you can tell, I'm incredibly bored.

[Ceiliazul]

*cries* at the rate I'm going there won't be any more MM to think about...

[novice]

Now we just need to figure out how to one-turn the SS Engine.

[Krill]

I did that MM for Cyneheard in PBEM22.

He didn't use it

[Krill]

Question for lurkers: do you have any meta questions about these MM works? Like what the aims are, or what sort of information is needed to make decisions?