[SPOILERS] RB PB7 LURKER Thread

[Ceiliazul]

My interpretation of "casual" and the double-move "rule" was that casual meant "you will get double-moved a lot - so deal with it and just accept it's part of the game."

That makes sense, but don't forget LPs consistently holding turns, and talking out of thread. The first is annoying to everyone, the second is rule breaking any way you slice it. (He hasn't done that since the Great Scolding, so hopefully it's in the past)

[Krill]

I don't think you can apply the word "casual" to most games that are played without rules. Ruthless, maybe, but not casual.

[Rowain]

No you asked before and I told you - he blatantly broke the diplo rule twice - once after he'd been warned about it.

That makes sense, but don't forget LPs consistently holding turns, and talking out of thread. The first is annoying to everyone, the second is rule breaking any way you slice it.

Lets not forget that both times it was ASM who started the out-of-thread talk. And that ASM also didn't see anything wrong with this and even scolded lurkers (naming them drama-queens) after he was told to not talk oot.

Well negotiating is easier in there and I'll just post the chat drama queens.

So how do you lurkers feel about it?

I'd still say the spirit of the rules is perfect visibility so its not so cloak and dagger and its more fun than work. And negotiating a little treaty that's non binding and going to be broken anyway over the period of several days is by definition not fun but work to catch people at the right time especially when it is a worthless treaty that we both know is just a formality.

Discuss, I command it or I shall bring upon so much drama as to drag this game to a stand still!

A lot of the mess this game turned into is ASM-fault for his a)law-breaking and b) his constant bitching over double-moves even when LP has several hours (~6-8) between his logins. IMO ASM is the real ass here and not LP.

[Gazzahk]

Thanks Scooter, yes I had forgotten LP's breaking of the diplo rule - very true.

What you have written about the old double move issue seems to me to make the most sense.

Hopefully, they can all settle down a bit .... but somehow I doubt it.

[Brian Shanahan]

not only that, but Firaxis solved the stacking problem pretty effectively in Alpha Centauri, anyway (zone control, plus 20% collateral damage to the entire stack IF a unit was destroyed in the stack). It wasn't 1UPT, but it certainly kept you from stacking more than a dozen or so deep - 5 lost battles and you would lose the entire stack. If the lazy programers really thought SOD were a problem they could have gone back to that.

I don't thin Shafer was thinking "we have a problem with the SOD, we must abolish it" (and those who did, why did they think 1upt would be less tedious?) but was thinking "I love PG, let's turn Civ 5 into that! Yay!" and brought in 1upt. Of course like every other project I've seen that he's been in charge of (Final Frontier, espionage in BtS), it was a potentially good idea half arsed and badly thought through.

[Rowain]

Of course like every other project I've seen that he's been in charge of (Final Frontier, espionage in BtS), it was a potentially good idea half arsed and badly thought through.

Was the espionage Shafers doing? I thought it was Alexman who did this.

[Krill]

They were both designers on BtS (the only designers in fact). And how they screwed that up...

[Brian Shanahan]

Was the espionage Shafers doing? I thought it was Alexman who did this.

From what I read, Shafer designed the espionage part (the only main part he was involved in). They tested his espionage found it completely broken and alexman reworked it into it's 1/4 fixed current state.

Now this was a pretty much third-hand retelling, but given the state of Final Frontier, and Civ 5 I consider it pretty plausible.

[Bigger]

Can you explain what is so broken with espionage? I have only started playing around with using it heavily in SP recently (mostly after reading the intro to seven's thread in this game, and a similar thread on CFC).

Before that I only used it to see what the various ai's are researching, and that doesnt become practical until communism and democracy are researched. Causing a temporary +8unhealth or +8happiness seems to be the only thing you can do without a great deal of EP points.

I say that because the previous espionage system I was used to came from Alpha Centauri as well - and if you think Civ4's espionage is broken, heh. You can steal tech's just by walking a spy into any enemy base with a pretty high percentage - 100% first time you hit a base, 67% all times after that(spies unlocked 3-4th tech), "infiltrate datalinks" which means you can access all of their data screens and open up any base you have a map of (oh btw if you have all their techs you can also steal their world map) - and mid-to late game unleash all sorts of genetic atrocities that cut the city population in half and "injure" all military units in the city. And you don't need EP points or cash - the only cost is the hammers spent producing the spy!

Yet I can't recall anyone calling covert ops in SMAC broken.

[Krill]

You can constantly swap the civics of an opposing player.