[SPOILERS] Cornflakes and Q Eat 'Em for Breakfast!

[Cornflakes]

X-post, whats pumpkin pie?

Breakfast the day after Thanksgiving. Why? :P

What he said ... But it makes a great breakfast any time it's around.

For more names ... There are many more exotic breakfasts (i'm sure lurkers could come up with some as needed), plus we could expand into fast food for less desirable locations.

[Krill]

Capital = Bacon and Eggs

[Qgqqqqq]

Opponent Analysis Part 2:

2metraninja (Realms Beyond Duel League)

playing as

SURYAVARMAN II (EXP/CRE)

of

Mongolia (Keshik/Ger)

I had a look through some (mainly off this site) games and it appears he is a former ladder player which means he is likely to be inclined towards the rush and early war, which as I’ve mentioned earlier, this is a good game for. From what I can discern from the duels, he is a canny general and micromanger, but has some tactical weaknesses with regards to odds and gets too caught up in discernable/long-term leads (like land) rather then harder to quantify advantages like teching power, and certain wonders.

Sury of Mongolia, unfortunately, gives him that strong rusher with the fastest starting leader around. If he’s not in the lead (especially with land) by T100, he’ll be at a dramatic disadvantage late-game. This is probably the strongest pick for early expansion and because of this, probably the strongest pick across the board due to the TT nerf to FIN, and the loss of hunting as a nerf due to the all-scout start.

It is likely someone will die to his Keshiks, but relatively unlikely to be the Zulu (for obvious reasons )
If he is our neighbour, keep a large standing military, and try and stop him stealing all the land.
Pre-game positioning=#2 or 3 (depending on early lead/early dog piling target).

And yes, definitely bacon and eggs

[Cornflakes]

I took a few stabs at your sandbox (probably about 15 different iterations) with our current knowledge, settling on sugar ... in a nutshell the best results I got:

1) Mining > BW -- Start double worker ... then grow to size 2, settler aided by 3 chops on T32
2) Mining > BW -- worker > warrior [to size 4] > settler chop/whip on T28, 2 hammers from 2nd worker on T32 if aided by second chop
3) Mining > BW -- worker > settler (out by T26, aided with chop) + a second worker by T33
4) Wheel > Pottery -- Best I could do was worker & settler by T28, grow on warrior (4/15) [size 2] by T32

Of these I favor option 2 as the most efficient.

[Qgqqqqq]

Yeah I thought 2) looked the best when playing around with it (didn't get very far, my computer keeps crashing), only problem was lack of improved tiles.
What tiles did you improve in 2)? I always felt at a deficit, is it possible to slot a second worker in first?

[Qgqqqqq]

As in, after the warrior, but before the settler.

[Cornflakes]

Yeah I thought 2) looked the best when playing around with it (didn't get very far, my computer keeps crashing), only problem was lack of improved tiles.
What tiles did you improve in 2)? I always felt at a deficit, is it possible to slot a second worker in first?

The worker went corn > farm banana (mining a hill is worse) ... The lack of improved tiles isn't too big a deal because we are whipping down to size 2 and sticking there on another worker immediately after. The only other tiles we could improve are mines. Those questions prompted be to try out half a dozen or more new attempts. Basically slotting another worker in first slows the settler by 4 turns and uses another chop (either we build settler T28 and worker T32 or worker T28 and settler T32)... so we end up on T33 with:

[slotting worker first]: size 2 capital, two workers, two farms, brand new setter
[settler first]: size 2 capital, two farms, two workers, 4 extra turns into the new city

Granted, the 4 extra turns into the new city won't be spectacular turns, but that is still 4 turns into another worker there. The snowball gets rolling sooner

[Qgqqqqq]

Yeah you're probably right.
When are you putting in wheel? (After BW, obviously, but straight after?)
When do we revolt to slavery?

[Qgqqqqq]

Culture: do we want tor try stonehenge after this (maybe even in the new city???)?

[Cornflakes]

Sorry i left kind of abruptly last night. My internet cut out and did not come back right away this time when I reset it. Rather than waiting an unknown time for it to revive I just went to bed early.

I was revolting into slavery ASAP (the turn BW comes in). We get no benefit from waiting because we need slavery anyway to whip the settler out. I don't think delaying revolt until the turn immediately before would hurt but I didn't check. I think this is enough time in the sandbox before we actually start though. Things might change, and anyway it's a given that we'll go worker/BW first so we'll have an additional 12 turns decide exactly what comes after the worker.

RE Stonehenge: maybe, but we don't start with Mysicism ... I think that would depend on what we get at city #2. If we've got pigs/sheep we should go Animal Husbandry after BW. It would be nice to pick up mini-creative (for 75H w/ IND), but 2nd city sounds rather early. This also plays into our decision for next tech (do we go wheel > pottery here or myst?).