[Spoilers] Fintourist and Old Harry have nothing to see here

[Fintourist]

3 things came to my mind:

1. Logistics between BoP & France
I'm sure this is clear to you, but just making sure:

T92:
- Galley moves NW
- Bowman moves to France
- Galley moves SE
- Settler and Worker move into the galley
T93:
- Our victorious bowman secures the forested hill tile where our settler is heading
- Our worker finishes the road NW of France
- Galley moves into the France
- Settler & Worker are unloaded
- Settler moves NW-W-NW to the City I site
- Worker moves NW-W and puts a turn into the road
T94:
- City I is founded
- Worker that is on the forest moves W and completes the road
- The other worker moves onto cows and starts pasturing (will be finished together on T96)

2. Let's try to make silver-to-ivory trade with dtay?
- I think he might agree, he's been friendly towards us so far, suggested a map trade etc. He might also think that accepting this trade convinces us not to settle towards the ivory between us
- Let's not offer the deal this turn yet, but next turn. If the deal goes through next turn it is very likely that we have an extra happy from T92 to T101. As a reminder sugar & whales come online probably on T102.
- It might be worthwhile to make this trade before someone else trades his ivory. It seems probable that he will have an extra source of ivory and we want to be the ones getting it in the long-term as well.

3. Tile micro in BoP & Agincourt
We have to pay attention to the tile micro in our capital & BoP. We have 3 targets that we want to reach and we have to balance between them.
- We get Currency EOT93
- Agincourt produces settler EOT95
- BoP starts growing as quickly as possible
In essence: Which city is working the fish tile and is our capital working cottages or mines.

[Old Harry]

1. Logistics between BoP & France
I'm sure this is clear to you, but just making sure:

T92:
- Galley moves NW
- Bowman moves to France
- Galley moves SE
- Settler and Worker move into the galley
T93:
- Our victorious bowman secures the forested hill tile where our settler is heading
- Our worker finishes the road NW of France
- Galley moves into the France
- Settler & Worker are unloaded
- Settler moves NW-W-NW to the City I site
- Worker moves NW-W and puts a turn into the road
T94:
- City I is founded
- Worker that is on the forest moves W and completes the road
- The other worker moves onto cows and starts pasturing (will be finished together on T96)

That micro around moving the bowman and settler+worker is pretty much what I was thinking too, I was wondering if we should pre-chop the forest NW of France with the spare worker turn, but actually it'll be useful to have that available later. After the pasture I presume we want two forests chopped into the granary, then slow-build or whip a barracks?

2. Let's try to make silver-to-ivory trade with dtay?
- I think he might agree, he's been friendly towards us so far, suggested a map trade etc. He might also think that accepting this trade convinces us not to settle towards the ivory between us
- Let's not offer the deal this turn yet, but next turn. If the deal goes through next turn it is very likely that we have an extra happy from T92 to T101. As a reminder sugar & whales come online probably on T102.
- It might be worthwhile to make this trade before someone else trades his ivory. It seems probable that he will have an extra source of ivory and we want to be the ones getting it in the long-term as well.

Sounds good to me. Avoids stagnating Cannae

3. Tile micro in BoP & Agincourt
We have to pay attention to the tile micro in our capital & BoP. We have 3 targets that we want to reach and we have to balance between them.
- We get Currency EOT93
- Agincourt produces settler EOT95
- BoP starts growing as quickly as possible
In essence: Which city is working the fish tile and is our capital working cottages or mines.

BoP needs a build for a couple of turns before it starts on wealth, I think another spear... If it has the fish and sheep t92, 93, 94 it gets back to size 4 on t95 and could be size 5 on t97...

Agincourt should still finish the settler EOT95 even with the hammer lost to the silver. Although managing it and the growth in Endor might be a bit tricky. Will look at that later.

One more thing - have you noticed when YM play their turns? Would it be very gamey to burn Suttree's city whilst they are logged in, trying to make it look like their fault?

[Fintourist]

After the pasture I presume we want two forests chopped into the granary, then slow-build or whip a barracks?

Yes, something like that should be done!

One more thing - have you noticed when YM play their turns? Would it be very gamey to burn Suttree's city whilst they are logged in, trying to make it look like their fault?

That would be gamey, but also pretty funny! Of course assuming that we manage to burn that city in the first place at all.. I don't think that it would provide us any real benefits, and since this game (I believe) should on general level be played without much consideration regarding when one plays his turns we should probably just forget this idea. Unless of course our lonely lurkers confirm that it does not matter at all and it would only add

[Old Harry]

Yeah, even I don't log in often enough to make that happen...

I just had a look in game and it looks like the settler will complete eot95 if we work the cottage over the mine in Dunkirk for a few turns. Updated the micro sheet. I'll get a chance to extend the sandbox a bit further on Wednesday or Thursday, unless you'll have some time for simming before your trip?

On trading - Ichabod has ivory available too - would you rather trade with dtay? Also YuriMack got Currency in the last couple of turns.

[Fintourist]

On trading - Ichabod has ivory available too - would you rather trade with dtay? Also YuriMack got Currency in the last couple of turns.

Yeah.. It seems Ichabod is reading our minds.. When I checked the situation in game I was welcomed with this:



I sat there for a while and wondered if I should reject it and consult you first.. But in the end I gathered myself and accepted the offer! I'm sorry if you disagree with the decision! But at least we have ivory now! Ichabod seems to be doing quite well, but probably not so well that we should outrule co-operation with him. I can see us getting mutually beneficial trade routes with him in the not so distant future. And I also thought that maybe it's in the end better to support Ichabod instead of our immediate neighbor, dtay. Of course, becoming better friends with dtay might also be valuable! Theoretically, we could still offer the same deal to dtay and cancel the Ichabod trade by declaring war.

I'll get a chance to extend the sandbox a bit further on Wednesday or Thursday, unless you'll have some time for simming before your trip?

That would be totally awesome! I will definitely have some civ time on Wed and Thu, but I doubt it will be enough for doing a complete micro run. However, if our attack succeeds our targets will be pretty clear still for the next 5-9 turns, so we are not in the situation where we need to improvise everything. But on the other hand: If our attack succeeds, I think T95 is the latest date, where we need to stop and think for a while where will our 11th and 12th cities (K&L) go and how we are going to support them.


Important advice for the next turn!!:

After you have roaded the attack tile, but before you declare war on suttree:
- Check the trade screen with suttree and see what resources he has (especially whether he has horses!)
I think that piece of a road will bring us trade routes thanks to the river and we have this brief moment where we can get that information. If he does not have horses (probably better to check F4 for trades also), we can feel safer about not guarding our workers and moving the settler onto the jungle hill. (I'm not really worried about those workers, it's really bad luck if he has two workers in perfect position and to do some combat roading (and then delete or protect) or a well-located chariot that he would use for harming us instead of defending the city)

PS. I think I agree with you about moving onto the tile SW of "balls"/Sevilla, but feel free to change your mind if something occurs to you.

[Fintourist]

Early news from T92:

• Our bowman killed the spear. It took one hit in the process and has now 2.5/3 strenght.
  
• New spear appeared close by. I think we move our bowman NW as originally plant onto forested hill, where it gets +75 % tile defense bonus. I haven't checked, but I imagine that we get similar 90-97 % odds.
  
• Lunch could move NW-W
  
• We have trade route with Bacchus although we haven't met him. So probably m_h, Ichabod or dtay has traded maps with him
  
• I quickly selected builds in the cities that finished builds: Bowman in France, Spear in BoP and Library in Gallipoli. I think Bowman in France is clear, other two are not that obvious (Is Library just too expensive for Gallipoli? Maybe not, it will become a commerce city eventually. Are the spears the units that we really need? Shouldn't we build a lighthouse or a scouting wb/galley).
  
  Can't wait to see what suttree has in the city...

[Old Harry]

Turn 92 part one

Starting with Mardoc, the old streetfighter, you're right - the extra hill bonus actually improves the odds in spite of the injury - so he's 97% to win. Lunch reveals another river - I think he'll move to the tile the spear is on next turn, although he could hug the coast or just move 1S.


The galley micro all worked out fine. Isandlwana will be settled t94 barring terrible combat luck. I want to move the bowman in France out to the SW next turn to scout since we'll soon have another (whip on t94 regrows straight away, then start a worker?)


Then the fun bit, the workers build a road and this is what suttree has for sale:


Then Oxy moves in to check out what's happening, and it looks good. One axe, two workers no road and a pasture for something invisible? If the workers complete the road we can be attacked but they can be sniped.


Any thoughts about how to proceed? Offer peace for city? Move settler to the hill?

[Fintourist]

I'll comment on other stuff later, but here my thoughts about the suttree front:

How about we move axe + bowman on the flatland W of Seville. And then the 3rd bowman onto tile SW of Seville. I think that way suttree has no chance to combat road the tile W of Seville and kill our workers or our warrior+settler pair?

[Fintourist]

If we do what I suggested, I feel comfortable to move warrior + settler onto "x?" If suttree wants to attack out against our axe with 50 % odds and give up his fortify bonus, that's just fine for us. And I guess we can offer peace for that city. It's placement is far from optimal, but free city is a free city and apparently we would have horses there I'm kind of hoping that he does not accept because with that kind of a flatland plant I'm lot more worried about a counterstrike.

EDIT: But again, it would be dum to say no if we would get a free city + 10 turns of peace..

EDIT2: Only 1 axe and no road in place to bring reinforcements!

[Old Harry]

Nice spot on the worker steal, I agree - shock axe + bow on flatland is good. What promos do we want on our bowmen? Combat I on them all? Actually, he can only road one tile - the pasture or W of the city this turn, so if we just put a bow there he can't get the workers and we could have an empty city to walk into...

If we offer Suttree peace for the city it gives us ten turns to consolidate, but if we don't we could lose units, gain XP and (if he builds the road) gain some free workers.

More thoughts about the island - if Ichabod's work boat got to us he either has some cities on the island, declared to get through someone else's culture or the island is empty. Do we need the galley for anything? I'd like to send it south to circumnavigate the island.