RB Pitboss #1 Spoilers - Joai of the Incans - Krill/Memphus

[Exploit]

To Imhotep:

I would like to make you an offer which will give you a huge army and allow you to exact your revenge against Rego. As you can tell by checking out civstats, I have begun drafting 5 riflemen a turn and I will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Within 20 turns I am going to have over a 100 riflemen.

My proposal is as follows. I will gift you 20 riflemen in exchange for you agreeing to be my vassal. I will give you more rifles as you require, sufficient to completely overrun Rego's western flank and conquer it for yourself. The only caveat is that if you wish to cancel the vassal agreement that you must give me 20 turns notice and repay all the riflemen that you borrowed with an amount of units of equivalent hammer value before the vassal agreement ends. If you keep the vassal agreement until the end of the game then you never need to repay the borrowed troops.

I suspect that you will enjoy the game more having a huge army at your disposal and running rampant over Rego's lands then limping along defensively merely holding off Rego's attacks.

Interested?

Regards,
Exploit

[Exploit]

To Morgan/Munro:

I would like to make you an offer which will give you a huge army and allow you to overrun your enemies. As you can tell by checking out civstats, I have begun drafting 5 riflemen a turn and I will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Within 20 turns I am going to have over 100 riflemen.

My proposal is as follows. I will gift you 20 riflemen in exchange for you agreeing to be my vassal. I will give you more rifles as you require, sufficient to completely overrun your enemies and conquer their land for yourself. I will also waive the 5 cannons that you owe me for settlement rights. The only caveat is that if you wish to cancel the vassal agreement that you must give me 20 turns notice and repay all the riflemen that you borrowed plus the 5 cannons with an amount of units of equivalent hammer value before the vassal agreement ends. If you keep the vassal agreement until the end of the game then you never need to repay the borrowed troops.

I suspect that you will enjoy the game more having a huge army at your disposal and running rampant over your enemies then the status quo.

Interested?

Regards,
Exploit

[Cyneheard]

I hope this works just to see how this works.

[Exploit]

Imhotep's response:

Hi Exploit,

rego will have Railroads and thus Machine Guns in 10 turns. So it’s not really useful to attack with Rifles then, as I could not reach his cities in less than that with a significant force. But thanks for the offer!

Imhotep

[Exploit]

regoarrarr: hi
me: hi
regoarrarr: got some time?
and this is exploit, right?
me: it is and I have some time
regoarrarr: cool
i see you've been drafting lately!
Sent at 4:20 PM on Tuesday
me: Yes, based upon yesterday's conversation I didn't feel that you were understanding my position clearly so I decided that I had to strengthen my negotiating position.
regoarrarr: lol
so what is your position? my understanding is that you were looking for a nap with me so you could smack sunrise (or someone) around?
Sent at 4:23 PM on Tuesday
me: My position is that I will shortly have the power to take both you and Sunrise out even if you work together and there is nothing that the two of you can do to stop me. It will be costly in terms of population a lost soldiers but that is a price that I am willing to pay unless you make me a very strong offer.
Sent at 4:25 PM on Tuesday
regoarrarr: okay
do you think that's a winning position?
if you take sunrise and myself out, it seems like the other players would band together to try and take you out
do you think you would have enough to hold off everyone?
(that's a serious question - you very well might)
Sent at 4:27 PM on Tuesday
me: My allies are strongly advocating for me to take the two of you out and we have agreed upon the necessary bribes that will keep them loyal. I will not end up with all of both your territories but neither of you would make it to the next era.
regoarrarr: gotcha
makes sense
Sent at 4:29 PM on Tuesday
me: Of course since I have been forced to demonstrate my willingness to draft my entire population that means the price for peace has gone up and will continue to rise with each turn of drafting.
regoarrarr: are you sure this isn't krill?
me: lol! No it's just me, your peace seeking neighbor.
Sent at 4:33 PM on Tuesday
regoarrarr: hold on someone at my desk
Sent at 4:34 PM on Tuesday
me: just let me know when you are back
Sent at 4:40 PM on Tuesday
regoarrarr's new status message - I'm not here right now 4:43 PM
regoarrarr: ok back
me: I'm still here
regoarrarr: so yesterday we were exploring some sort of relationship with you me and sunrise
where he funds both of our research to some degree
Sent at 4:45 PM on Tuesday
me: yes that was the carrot which I hoped would save me having to prove that I wasn't bluffing. Now that I have already drafted 10 population, my populace is much more inclined towards the stick approach.
regoarrarr: were you expecting me to just give you a yes/no on the spot yesterday?
Sent at 4:48 PM on Tuesday
me: It's a fast paced game with every 18 hours being 1 more turn towards our peace treaty being over. I do not have the luxury for long negotiations.
regoarrarr: sure
Sent at 4:51 PM on Tuesday
me: Here is the deal that I am willing to make until my next draft. You give me the land back which you took from me which includes the cities of Evendale, Sharonville, North Bend and Lockland. You also give me the Great Engineer that you have siting in Arlington and Steam Power and Railroad when you finish it. I will give you peace until Turn 215, I will not colonize your northern border and I will make a good faith effort to negotiate a peace deal with Sunrise.
Sent at 4:54 PM on Tuesday
me: The price for peace will rise next turn.
regoarrarr: hold on someone called me grr
Sent at 4:56 PM on Tuesday
regoarrarr: so on an awfully coincidental note, i noticed that imhotep decided to start drafting this turn
me: Yes, that was um... a coincidence!
regoarrarr: lol
me: I can't help but notice that Arlington is poorly defended. A maceman, 2 catapults and a riflemean scurrying over to defend.
regoarrarr: yup
me: I believe my offer is generous given the circumstances.
regoarrarr: seems like an awfully different tone from yesterday, given the fact that only 1 turn has passed
me: 1 turn but 2 drafts.
Sent at 5:04 PM on Tuesday
me: You can see from civstts that I have spent a lot of time loggedi nto the game over the last 24 hours and negotiating with my allies. I have very strong support to take you out. Believe it or not some of my allies, don't feel as kindly towards you as I do.
regoarrarr: who wouldn't love a lovable soul such as myself?
Sent at 5:07 PM on Tuesday
me: I really don't understand their concerns. I believe that you are a reasonable person and I am certain that once you demonstrate that reasonableness by accepting my offer that they will be less inclined to so violently oppose you.
Sent at 5:08 PM on Tuesday
regoarrarr: I feel I must decline your offer. Your tone has left me with the impression that you are not interested in compromise or negotiation of peace terms, which is too bad because I had come up with some interesting thoughts / ideas based on our conversation of yesterday. If I am wrong in that impression, I am sure that you'll let me know. Otherwise, I guess we'll see each other on the battlefield!
Sent at 5:14 PM on Tuesday
me: It's unfortunate that I won't be seeing you in the next round of game play. I rather enjoyed our conversations. They make the game more interesting. I admit that I'm at least mildly curious as to what your counter-proposal was going to be before you decided to end negotiations and jump straight to war.
regoarrarr: well who's to say we can't continue to talk once you've eliminated me?
Sent at 5:21 PM on Tuesday
me: true but it's the rivalry in the game that gives us something to talk about.
regoarrarr: yeah i guess
i'll probably be all spoilered from reading everyone's threads too
so i might not be able to be impartial
not that i'm impartial now i guess but you know what i mean
me: I undrstand.
regoarrarr: and as for ending negotiations that was not my intention
rather it was the impression i was getting from you
me: so what is your counter-proposal?
regoarrarr: your tone from yesterdray has changed more dramatically than 2 turns of drafts would seem to indicate (and for the record, i IMd you at 10:31 this morning to chat, before the turn rolled over but you must have been away, or maybe it was krill logged in)
Sent at 5:24 PM on Tuesday
me: I didn't see any IM bu I may have missed it. I was on around that time.
I am on now. And I am listening.
regoarrarr: weird
Sent at 5:25 PM on Tuesday
me: My tone change is because I have done the math and tried a few sandbox simulation attacks using our respective troops. Based upon how little room you actually have left to draft and how long it will take you to build sufficient machine guns to make a difference in our war. I will overrun the 4 cities I mentioned plus a few more before you get enough machine guns to even slow me down even if you throw your entire stack on my front which opens you up to attack on other fronts. I now realize you are screwed if I press this attack which I thought was the case yesterday but I wasn't as certain.
Sent at 5:31 PM on Tuesday
regoarrarr: okay
sorry to cut this short
but i have to get home
probably be tomorrow am before i'm around again
Sent at 5:35 PM on Tuesday
me: np
regoarrarr: draft another round and i might be willing to give you a few more cities
me: lol. You can be certain that the draft is going to happen.
have a good night

[Exploit]

Reading between the lines, I think Rego thought Krill was coaching me through the above negotiations. Here I thought I was the only ruthless negotiating bastard.

[Krill]

I think you are the only one still in the game.

:Popcorn:

[Exploit]

Hi Imhotep,

No problem. I hope you successfully hold out against Rego and eventually get your revenge. How much longer is your peace treaty? Rego has been pestering me for a peace treaty for a while now (including sneakily getting a temporary treaty using the AP vote) which I assume is so he can move the force build up he has on my border to attack you. Besides you and I, all of his neighbors are allies of his now that Shady has taken Elkad's northern lands so he needs to expand through 1 of the 2 of us. I am doing my best to keep all of his troops concentrated on me instead of you.

Rego only has a maceman and 2 catapults in Arlington at the moment plus a Great Engineer (I'm not sure what wonder he intends to rush build there). He has 2 more rifles headed that way. Unless he has more units in the no man's land between you, you should be safe for a while. I will let you know if I see Rego building up near your area. He may be ferrying troops to that barbarian island between you two. There is a galley going back and forth but I cannot see what troops were on it.

I would recommend that you keep drafting 5 riflemen each turn as your power chart is very low currently. More troops will deter Rego from attacking you and may even give you the option to take some of his undefended cities if the opportunity arises which I believe it will.

Regards,
Exploit

[Exploit]

From Morgan:

Exploit,

Your offer is interesting, many thanks for putting it on the table.

You'll understand that I am but a temporary ruler and it would be unfair for me to commit under the terms you propose.

I do understand that your keen to firm your borders during these important times, my efficient empire is an ideal buffer zone to prevent your enemies disrupting your well laid plans. You'll agree that 20 rifles is a little light considering the magnitude of your proposal, the Romans are a proud people and it will be a difficult sell to convince the general public that slavery to your empire is the right way to proceed.

If Rome was to make any gains against the hated enemy then Rome will need cannon, will you gift us cannon or money for catapult upgrades?

Rome will face an attack from the enemy in 4 turns - 18 rifles and 6 cannon.

Rome appreciates close friends and allies, we suggest a 20t agreement renewable to a full vassal pact if conduct on both sides is appropriate.

As stated before Rome is under attack, we urgently need support, if you were to deliver 10 rifles immediately and money for limited catapult upgrades(when available). Rome will become your vassal for 20 turns, Rome would have to insist that the 10 rifles were a gift and any monies as a interest free loan

Any further riflemen donated within these 20 turns will be repaid in full at the end of the 20turns or as soon as possible afterwards.

I have no knowledge of settling right cannons, i request this matter be discussed in 20turns.

Under the present circumstances then this is a fair and balanced deal, if the longer term implications are considered then your getting a bargin.

Happy to hear your views.

Morgan

[Exploit]

King Morgan,

Hopefully, the permanent ruler will browse this exchange while he is away to confirm the 5 cannon debt callable at any time and to advise you on the offer that I put forth.

My advisors tell me that the war is not going well for Rome and that Rome has suffered significant losses and is on the verge of more significant losses. Given the current situation, I am certain you can understand why my advisors are telling me that Rome is a credit risk and that we should therefore collect on the debt as soon as possible since Rome may not even be around by the time the permanent ruler returns.

I most certainly would not agree that 20 rifles is a light offer under the circumstances especially given that as my vassal Rome's wars would become DR's wars. My offer is likely the only chance that Rome has to survive and with my help Rome will even grow in size.

Let us also be clear that vassalage is not slavery. Slavery is a barbaric practice that DR does not condone, although I see Rome still uses such practices. Vassalage is the honorable commitment of loyalty in recognition of the benevolent favors that stronger nations perform to support weaker nations. You turn down our goodwill gesture to help your nation to survive in exchange for a simple oath of loyalty and then turn around and ask us for free aid?

Rome has a been a good neighbor and DR would like to see it prosper but when the people of DR are asked to go fight in Rome's wars, they say "Hell no we won't go". The mothers of our sons need to know that the ultimate sacrifice that they are being asked to make is for their motherland and not for someone else's war.

Given the temporary nature of the current leadership of Rome, DR is willing to modify its offer. Rome becomes DR's vassal for the duration of the current temporary regime and DR will send as many rifles and gold for upgrades as we can spare (a minimum of 20 rifles but realistically many more). When the pemament ruler returns they will be given the option to repay the amount of gold loaned and the equivalent units in production value for the units loaned with no interest charged. If they decide to exercise this option then vassalage will be terminated upon repayment in full. As part of this agreement the 5 cannon debt will also be postponed until the permanent ruler returns.

Please note that currently DR does not have 10 riflemen stationed near Rome's peaceful borders so from a practical implementation it will take travel time to get the units to Rome. DR is willing to draft from the cities nearest Rome to minimize such time.

As an aside, we all played in the Fog of War campaign with its pseudo mass permanent alliances, and I am on record as stating that I consider such alliances to be cheating and defying the spirit of the game. Vassalage is the only legal in-game way to form such alliances. I will do my utmost to support any vassal, even to the point of self-detriment but there is no way that I am going to defy my principles and be part of some pseudo mass permanent alliance where if-one-of-us-wins-we-all-win.

I do consider vassals to formally be part of the winning team (actual permanent allies would also be part of the winning team but that option is not turned on this game). I have a good position with good odds of winning the game and I am formally inviting you to be part of that team. If you think you have a chance to win the game on your own or would prefer to be part of someone else's team then by all means turn down my offer. A peaceful vassalage option can be cancelled by the vassal at any time so if the situation changes there is always an out.

My expectation is that Rome would be part of the team until the end therefore I do not expect the loaned troops or gold to ever have to be repaid however I would not want to invest all those resources into an ally only to have them later use those same resources (or the resources gained by conquest because of the gifted units) against me later. That is the reason for the payback on termination clause. Those same units could instead be used to grow my own nation.

Regards,
Exploit