[SPOILERS - NO PLAYERS] The Final Clusterfuck: The PB38 Map and Lurker Thread

[RefSteel]

Sounds good. It doesn't have to look more like C than any of the others though; I liked all three options you posted before, and I'm sure I'll like whatever you come up with here!

In the meantime, I'll do some some more geometry and lay some groundwork for adding the starts to the map.

[Cornflakes]

I reduced the clumping by a factor of about 1/4 from the previous iteration. "c" below has the most clumping and it has about half of the previous ones.

"a" is "medium" clumping
"b" is "less" (approximately half "a" clumping)
"c" is "more" (approximately double "a" clumping)

The base map will need a few island tiles sunk in the south to make that two separate blobs (currently connected by a narrow bridge). Personally my leaning is towards "b" with fewer resources overall. It still a rich map, and I think will provide more interesting options to the players than an even richer map. 


Draft 5 attached:

[RefSteel]

I agree that "b" is the best option. I'll have a closer look shortly....

[Cornflakes]

I have successfully managed to extract all 25 of the starts from your files, layer them onto the base map, rotate/mirrior, and move into desired positions. The rivers do stay with the starts and get imported into the map. The rivers will probably all need to be re-drawn when they are extended to the coast, but at least they will be there so that we can see and re-draw them.

There is no easy way to extract the corner files, only the BFC's. So the corner tiles will either need to be manually edited in, or left as the underlying base file.

One of the first orders of business needs to be nailing down locations of the starts. Once the start locations are finalized I can paste them into the map and re-draw the rivers. It will not be nearly as easy to move them after the fact so we will want to be as sure as we can be that we have them in the right locations.

Since the players have already been randomized to the starts I don't see any further need to randomize the starts onto the map. I propose we start with A at the top left and count up along the snaked continent to the other end (A-E in the top pentagon, etc.), rotating only where it would make a significant difference on the rivers.

If I have enough time tonight I'll try placing signs in-game with a first-draft of the proposed start locations.

[RefSteel]

Okay, cool! Another note about the starts: GJ's tool doesn't recognize forests in lakes, and in fact treats lakes as "transparent" for placement purposes, so the mangrove lakes will have to be edited back in manually (and the rivers partially redrawn so they flow into the lakes correctly). Also, the map has somehting on the order of 230 land tiles per player (including the islands).

I think some of the starts work better in different biomes than in others, but it might take me a little while to explain the order I would suggest, so if I don't get to it in time and you want to just place the starts in some random order, that'll work too. I don't advise going straight A through Y because you'll end up with weird blocks of starts due to the way I complicated things as I built them. (E.g. no river branches A through E, three straight mangroves F through H, then more unbranching rivers suddenly followed by a bunch of forks/confluences/headwaters in a row, etc.) Not the end of the world if that's easier for some reason though.

More later....

[RefSteel]

Okay, so it's certainly later, but I guess I don't have much more to add now after all. I've been unable to see how Krill was going to line up the start distances/locations on a map of this shape since page 1, and rather than beating my head against it anymore, I'll just trust that whatever you guys come up with will work well enough, and go from there!

In the meantime, I'll save my energy for things like building rivers, adding horses, confirming the mangrove lakes and (mostly) corner tiles are in place, cutting down excess land tiles if desired, making some passes on general resource distribution, and whatever else will be helpful once the starts have been placed. Let me know if there's anything specific you'd like me to cover!

[Krill]

Most of what I was going to do on the curves was around islands, peaks and lakes

[Cornflakes]

Here's my first draft placement of starts. The top-left arm is more cramped than the bottom right arm so we'll have to add a few land tiles around those starts to maintain distance to the coast.

Is 4 tiles sufficient distancce to the coast from the capital? Or would 5 tiles be much better?

Here are some screenshots of first draft start locations. I have placed the starts in A-Y for now since that was easiest but I understand what you're saying about the starts being grouped as you were making them. It will be minimal additional effort to mix them up. I counted 5 mangrove-lake starts and propose locating those around the equator (but not the "plains" middle) at E, F, H, Q, T. The remaining starts I can randomize.

Screenshots of start locations:

   

   

   

   

   

I'm out of time for this morning, if I find time this afternoon I'll go ahead and past the starts in as described above (or incorporating any of your comments in the meantime).

[RefSteel]

Most of what I was going to do on the curves was around islands, peaks and lakes

Do you think the start locations Cornflakes suggested in the images above are about right? (I'm not kidding about giving up on figuring this out.) Also, am I correct in presuming that the point of using islands/lakes/peaks on the curves would be just to give H and Q more of a "back lines" area so other players aren't effectively "behind" them?

[Krill]

R and S look a bit squashed. Run those start positions through novices map balancing tool just to check the amount of land they have available and adjust from there imo.