[SPOILERS] - social distancing with pindicator

[Charriu]

Yeah, but that survival is a bit fake. Don't forget my last city was the iceball city behind Mr. Cairo

[shallow_thought]

Yeah, but that survival is a bit fake. Don't forget my last city was the iceball city behind Mr. Cairo

Still counts.

@Pin - I did enjoy this thread. Slightly oddly, one reason for this was that it reminded me how miserable MP can be; I need to be reminded of this at intervals so that I don't get suckered in by how much fun the starts are.

@OH. Loved the arrows, as always. Also the win!

[Old Harry]

Thanks ST and FT. This was a really fun game to play. Pindi had left me with a beautifully constructed empire which just needed some bloody-minded war-monger to come along and grind out the win...

Oh I know how that feels. I like reading the rule books from board games and that's why I'm always explaining the rules to my friends. This had the unfortunated effect that they jokingly claimed that I "cheated" because I know the rules best.

It got to the point with some gaming friends I wasn't allowed to read rulebooks because I'd keep finding things they hadn't spotted and they hadn't explained...

I recently looked at the [city trade value] formula and will most likely do a curious civplayer about that.

As always great play by you OH. Win well earned.

Thanks Charriu! Sorry I wasn't much help as a dedlurker...

I think close cities never being useful for better trade routes is a bug and should be changed.  But it's not very high on the list of priorities.

This doesn't seem like a bug - surely its the whole reason the trade system is built the way its built?

[Charriu]

I'm always happy when I have dedlurkers with me, but they are not required to do anything or help me in anyway. It should be fun for them, too.

[NobleHelium]

I think close cities never being useful for better trade routes is a bug and should be changed.  But it's not very high on the list of priorities.

This doesn't seem like a bug - surely its the whole reason the trade system is built the way its built?

There is an unused parameter/function call in the calculation that looks like it should make closer cities discounted for the purpose of trade routes. Instead they end up completely useless. So that looks like a bug to me. Otherwise the code could be written in a simpler way. And I think discounting them rather than making them useless is better design.

[Old Harry]

Being further away should make for more lucrative trade though.

Actually, without wanting to provoke a rabid response from a Brexiteer, one of the things I've learned in the last four years is just how huge the UK's trade with Europe is compared to the rest of the world, so perhaps you're right. Damnit.

I still think that changing it for the sake of changing it should be out of the scope of CtH though.

[NobleHelium]

I'm saying it should be discounted and not completely useless. That still makes distant cities far more valuable for trade.

[Jowy]

Yeah, but that survival is a bit fake. Don't forget my last city was the iceball city behind Mr. Cairo

Well I had your capital for a few turns only.. you were pretty close to surviving in your core.

[Gaspar]

I'm still sad my primary contribution to this team I was ostensibly dedlurking never came off. (Operation Your MoM.)

[Jowy]

Jowy has been the most confusing player of the game to me, as he's built himself quite a tech lead by being the only civ to get not only Code of Laws but Civil Service - yet I'm not sure how a war is going to translate that into gains for him.  He does need to expand as he's currently the smallest empire in the game.  But I would think he wants to get a tech advantage first.  The obvious play was to go for Ballistaphants but he clearly didn't do that, so with a tech and commerce lead why not just go for knights or cuirassiers?

Teching up in peace was all I ever wanted
At this point I had had 3 scares from AT and some casual war decs from Charriu.

Jowy took another city, but there was a lot of warring.  Charriu earned TWO great generals and AT had a massive power spike dip.  Again, I'm not sure what AT is getting out of this war aside from being a good puppet for Jowy.  I'm sure Jowy will congratulate him by conquering his lands later in the game.

I was actually a very good friend to AT, sending him stuff and not taking his empty cities while his troops were tied on the other front. Maybe too nice for my own game.

I do wonder what caused Jowy to change his mind on giving the PRO leader open borders, but I think some of it may be Mjmd taking the score lead, building MoM, and starting to look like a real threat if nobody messes with him soon.

I got stonewalled by everyone else on OB. At that point, it wasn't worth it for me to lose gold just to hold you back.

I would assume that was Charriu's Great General who died because I'm not sure if Jowy has even had one generated yet.  But Jowy lost about 80k power - going from being even with me at just shy of 500k soldiers to this turn showing as me being 1.2x his power.  I do hope that Charriu can hold Jowy off.  If Jowy eats up all of Charriu quickly that could very well propel him to frontrunner status.  I've been rather impressed with Jowy so far this game, and while i would like Mjmd to have to worry about both of us on his borders I do not want a runaway on the other side of the continent.

Ty ty ty, it was all good up till around this point. I only went to war because it was a dogpile, I hadn't planned or prepared for it. When Charriu's stack came for me, I didn't have enough troops to tank it.
I had to retreat so that I can get the first hit with collateral. But I got caught out of position due to a game mechanic working differently than I thought, and ended up losing two cities back to him.

Other foreign relations left Jowy not responding for any further Open Borders negotiation.  Jowy, if you honestly think that my open borders are worth 15gpt and nothing less than you are a fool.  He also left two unguarded workers right by where my warrior ended up, and so I had to really restrain myself from retaliating against the hostility I have gotten from him all game.  It was understandable when I was in first place.  Now it just looks like he is badly, badly misreading the situation.  But I did not kill his workers off because I decided I didn't want to weaken him and would rather have him with decent relations when we have to try and take down Mjmd later on.

I tried to calculate the values from demos where we had OB and then your drop after, then split it in half so we'd both gain the same amount from the trade. Now, it's very possible I didn't calculate it right, but I tried my best 
I was still considering you the biggest threat and always did. That seemed to be the right call considering you ended up winning.
Good call on the workers. You (well, OH) did end up gaining me as a friend against Mjmd in the end.

Oh, and there was the funny bit of Jowy switching to Mercantilism the turn after we agreed to open borders.  Jowy really has over-valued just what his trade routes give to me all game!

I swear that wasn't intentional  I just realized that hey, free specialists are actually better for me.

Hey Jowy, why don't you sail a fleet around the world and land them over here?  Everyone else is doing it!

I was planning to! I'm somewhat of an expert in failed global dogpiles.

And Jowy v Charriu is still going strong.

(Screenie)

This is why Jowy teched Gunpowder this turn:  he is getting pushed back by a civ with half his research rate.  Serious Kudos to Charriu here.

I didn't get pushed back. Charriu for some reason attacked me (I still don't know, this is the first thread I have read). I wiped out his stack and started pushing since he didn't have much army now.
Why did I tech Gunpowder? I was going for cannons or rifles to conquer Charriu. Now I was stuck in war with Charriu whipping three promo longbows behind castles before I had a single rifle or cannon.

Somebody go into Jowy's thread and slap him.

(Screenie)

Here is the GNP graph.  Mjmd is in a golden age.  Jowy is not.  Jowy is out-teching Mjmd while Mjmd is in a golden age.  Jowy could easily win this game if he would take himself out of this war and tech up to the next age.  There was no reason why Jowy should have lost liberalism and there's no reason why Jowy is going to not get the Taj here.  He's stuck on Charriu like my stupid dog when it gets a scent of a squirrel or another dog and I'm yelling "Colt, come!" while he just stares at something he cannot have.

Anyway, Jowy, buddy, do yourself a favor and play the economy game!  Play the economy game and win!

Ugh it's what I wanted to do. I assumed Charriu at this point was in eternal war against me, because the attack never made much sense to me. So I thought I have to take him out to get rid of him, and to catch up on land (I was LAST in land for a lot of this game).
Perhaps I should have just let him keep attacking and play defense. Then again, I was very close to capturing his capital, without a small mistake I would have. Maybe I could have been a contender if I managed it.
Could I keep up with you and Mjmd without the extra land? I didn't think I could, and I did end up falling behind in eco to you and Mjmd. Would be interesting to see you go through my thread and point out my mistakes so I can do better in PB55 and PB56.

I'm considering conceding/dropping out.

Despite the tough talk, if Mjmd puts everything I've seen plus 10-15 rifles in one stack then it will be very tough. It will require whipping everywhere again and be very stressful. This whole game has been stressful.

In addition I woke up in the middle of the night sneezing due to all this smoke we have. Then I couldn't get back to sleep and my thoughts bouncing between the fires and this game. So I'm operating on half a nights sleep today

You kept it cool for a long time
It can't be easy when it seems like everyone is against you, but at the same time now that we know the results, I hope you understand they should have been even tougher against you 
Reminds me of what happened way back in PB2 in noob days, the huge dogpile on Sullla and Speaker that made them very angry. They also ended up winning their game.