[PB66 Mjmd] I HAVE NOT YET BEGUN TO FIGHT!!!

[Mjmd]

I've been meaning to do an America's based sea shanty theme. Seems like the time.

[Mjmd]

Changed the title, still going to be America's themed.




People are complicated. Are you a hero. Are you a villain. Even if you mean one thing it can be taken different ways in the moment let alone in the distance of history. People may even write songs about you that are only loosely accurate and someone else may then write several posts about you and the winding roads of history.

I don't want anyone to feel bad I'm no longer map making. If I wanted to make the map I wouldn't have offered to have Krill do / accepted. I had some conflicting emotions, but it will be load off my plate and I get to play, which I wanted to do anyways especially as I figured (and now confirmed) PB63 is ending.

Anyways anyone know why John Paul Jones has this Marble tomb at the naval academy at Annapolis?

[Mjmd]

Another very historical song  



So John Paul Jones is known as the "Father of the American Navy". You would expect someone with such a title to be a high ranking admiral at some point in charge of the fleet. Or maybe someone who helped set up doctrine or was a major player in pushing how the fleet was developed and operated. He was not any of those things.

Now he did take a lot of prizes. He took the fight to the British and raided the British home isle itself. He won a minor victory (blown out of proportion) off the British coast as well. He was not in any measurable respects the "Father of the American Navy". Good sailor. Daring successful fighter who never gave up; absolutely.

Long story short he died in France, was buried and forgotten about until early 1900s. 1906 body was found and escorted back to US and Theodore Roosevelt gave a speech when it was interred at the naval academy. All probably about par for actual service rendered (Roosevelt was a big fan of the navy as well). 

The Marble crypt however wasn't until 1913. I have to admit this next part is pure speculation, but I think its pretty good. Guesses please!


So 12 player snake pick. Now I'm in an interesting moral position because I actually know a little of peoples plans. Mind people really under performed in my opinion in their early threads; I was very disappointed. Anyways, I plan on sticking to analysis I've done in past games and civs I've expressed interest in before. Pick order is good civs first. I want either org or fin, but with the number of players fin goes up in value as game is likely to go late. So some combination of fin/org with creative or cha. Exp maybe; I keep wanting to try and if I'm near the end of the snake org /exp Babylon or Khmer sounds interesting. There are civ specific exceptions. Pick order is approximate below.

1) America - I don't remember who, but someone was looking at America. But listen I expect America to go in the first 3 picks and I won't be shocked if its first picked. It will be picked every game until Charriu moves the UB to courthouse (and maybe still then). Plus you know its the theme of the thread so would fit real well (to be clear I'm doing America's as in both continents but listen).
2) Mali - I just love Mali. its the only civ I might go Ind with. I'm not a fan of Ind with 12 players, but I would considering doing org/ind Mali, but mind you only if Cre fin and cre org are taken.

3) Here it gets interesting if I just take Zara cre / org instead of a civ.
4) Rome - it seems like occasionally after I lose a long game I want to do Agg Rome. Probably Agg/Org. I don't EXPECT it to be taken, but maybe. If agg leader of choice was taken I might switch to just being Rome with some random leader.

5) Mehmed org/exp of aqueduct civ. OR I really at some point want to try Darius org/fin of either India or Inca (Inca would also fit America's theme).

Edit: note for both Mali and Rome is that I expect at LEAST 3 neighbors and possible 4th by sea. Its possible both are smarter than America..... but when have I let that stop me.

[Krill]

Start 5 - Mjmd

[Mjmd]

Only 4 forests (edit; really just 3) and double 4F AH resources. While it doesn't NEED hunting for start you already know you would like. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. There aren't any options here either. One of the things after lurker review I did to my starts was give options. There are none here and you don't even get paid off for being shoe horned.

So it needs to be a hunting or agr civ. I'll have to verify it shouldn't be exactly a hunt & agr civ......... As long as that isn't the case I could pick America still or one of the agri wheel civs. Mali and Rome are out. Trying to snag both Mehmed and Babylon seems suspect as 5th pick. Double play Zulu? Maybe pair with my normal Vicky (I know a team was after Julius so would like to avoid conflict of interest, plus this is a lot of rivers and I do love Vicky.). But the speed of this start is SLOW, so Vicky of Zulu somewhat appeals to me.

[Krill]

You never gave options you made demands.

[Mjmd]

I made changes based on feedback. You were trying to impose your philosophy. Its fine to have different philosophies (read on at your own risk and know I still am ok with you having taken over)

BUT I'm finding the result slightly funny as the criticism that made you take over is what I got for my start.

I gave options for players for the start. Farmable tiles if they didn't want to tech a certain thing for instance. I'm forced for my 2nd improvement to tech AH. The fast worker off the forest elephant I'm assuming everyone gets (as you correctly pointed out I only had fast worker for 2 starts, which was good feedback). But anyways, in order for my worker to improve an AH resource I either A) have to skip hunting, which I know I'll need anyways fairly quickly AND I get to lose the 20% tech bonus OR B) I get to pick one of the two hunting /agri civs!!! OR C) I have to put some random turns into a grassland farm. If I remember your criticism is that the tech requirements were too harsh and yet you've given me a start with horrible tech requirement! I'm forced to either be horrible inefficient with techs or workers unless I pick one of two civs!

Here is my feedback if you care:

I'm not sure if every one else has so little food, but I probably would have added a few forests. Start is a bit low on food hammers. I basically have to go to size 4 before starting a settler. 3 forests and low food are mostly what is driving me towards Vicky (or Julius but I don't think he will make it back through the snake). Two AH food resources adds a big constraint. Add a sugar / floodplains. Probably on the tile between the 3. I'm debating if I don't get Zulu I might put 2 random turns into a farm there anyways.

I like making starts have a bit more spice. This start is amongst the worst I've ever had. PB52 which had a single fish and cow might be objectively worse, but it had forests up the wazoo (go go Imp India).

[Mjmd]

On a lighter note is there anything funny I should change the lurker thread to before I can no longer read? I've been trying to think of something, but been failing .

[Charriu]

For what it's worth it's like Mjmd said. You have two different philosophies and with that goals and neither is wrong. Krills is aimed towards more balance and highly competitive play (like with RtR). Mjmds were a bit more casual and allowed for more variance play at the cost of strong balance.

[Mjmd]

Last map thoughts and then I'll try to stop.

I don't see how these COULD be balanced. I have 2 civs to choose from. If Krill did 1 land start and 1 sea start like he was suggesting to me it means even at 5th pick I may not get either civ that fits the tech requirements.....

I'm not going to claim mine were balanced, but the total food was always good and they had forests especially any with awkward starts or that I thought were on the lower end. This capital will look good all cottaged up T150, but painful before then and you can't even chop your way out of it (which trust me with I'm already looking to build 2 workers early with that elephant and just like 2 more forests would go a LONG way).

Speaking of unpleasant topics. Here is my theory (I do have to stress this is my theory and I haven't found a ton of support for although I have found some indirect) in a nutshell on why John Paul Jones is "The Father of the US Navy" and has a marble tomb, which as a reminder he was put in in 1913 and therefore probably ordered and planned a bit prior.



US audience might recognize this chart but for those who don't its a graph showing when monuments to the confederacy were put up. Long story short John Pual Jones was a slave owner and one of only two southern sea captains during the Revolutionary War. Most of the naval capacity and captains came from the northeast. Saying "long story short" however leaves out a lot. More on complicated humans and history next time!