Realms Beyond Pitboss Planning Thread

[sunrise089]

Welcome all!

In fine RB tradition we're going to play a fun and wacky game. This time it's a Pitboss game with up to 13 different human-controlled civilizations

Pitboss is a type of Civ IV multiplayer that allows players to connect to a game hosted online at their own pace. Unlike PBEM turns happen simultaneously, so players can take as much or as little time as they would like to play. The game will be played with a turn timer, and we anticipate the entire game will take between 6 months and a year to complete.

Our 11 Pitboss Teams:

*shadyforce - Willem (Cre/Fin) / Persia (Immortal, chariot with +50% versus archery units and receives defensive bonuses/Apothecary, gorcer with +2 health/Agriculture+Hunting)
*Broker33 - Zara (Cre/Org) / Holy Roman Empire (Landsknecht, pikeman that has +100% versus melee units/Rathaus, Courthouse with an extra 25% maintenance reduction/Hunting+Mysticism)
*regoarrarr + Danski - Hatty (Cre/Spi) / India (Fast Worker, moves 3 tiles/Mausoleum, +2 happy jail/Mining+Mysticism)
*Krill + memphus - Joao (Exp/Imp) / Inca (Quechua, starts with combat 1 and 100% vs. archery units/Terrace, granary with +2 culture/Agriculture+Mysticism)
*dsplaisted + Fenton Denton Smith - Suryavarman II (Cre/Exp) / Mali (Skirmisher, strength 4 archer/Mint, forge that gives +10% gold/Mining+The Wheel
*Dreylin + kalin - Catherine (Cre/Imp) / Sumeria (Vulture, strength 6 axeman but only 25% bonus versus melee units/Ziggurat, courthouse available at Priesthood and 30 hammers cheaper than normal/Agriculture+The Wheel)
*mostly_harmless + Kodii - Louis (Cre/Ind) / Byzantium (Cataphract, strength 12 knight/Hippodrome, theater that gives +1 happiness from horses and +1 happiness per 5% culture, Mysticism+The Wheel)
*Imhotep - Genghis Khan Temujin (Agg/Imp) / Zulu (Impi, 2-move spear with mobility/Ikhanda, barracks that reduces maintenance/Agriculture+Hunting)
*sunrise089 - Mansa Musa (Fin/Spi) / Spain (Conquistador, cuirassier that receives defensive bonuses/Citadel, castle that gives +2 exp to siege units/Fishing+Mysticism)
*Ruff+TheArchduke - Kublai Khan (Agg/Cre) / Rome (Praetorian, strength 8 swordsman/Forum, market that gives small GPP boost/Fishing+Mining)
*ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF - Washington (Chm/Exp) / Carthage (Numidian Cavalry, strength 5 horse archer with 50% bonus versus melee units/Cothon, harbor with +1 trade routes/Fishing+Mining)

Some stats for the lurkers:

Overall pick order:

*Willem
*Zara
*India
*Inca
*Suryavarman
*Sumeria
*Louis
*Zulu
*Mansa Musa
*Rome
*Washington/Carthage
*Kublai Khan
*Spain
*Genghis Khan
*Byzantium
*Catherine
*Mali
*Joao
*Hatty
*Holy Roman Empire
*Perisa

Traits:
*Creative - 7
*Expansive - 3
*Imperialistic - 3
*Financial - 2
*Spiritual - 2
*Aggressive - 2
*Organized - 1
*Charismatic - 1
*Industrious - 1
*Philosophical - 0
*Protective - 0

Unique units by era:
*Ancient - 6
*Classical - 2
*Medieval - 2
*Renaissance - 1
*Industrial - 0
*Modern - 0

Unique units by type:
*Melee - 5
*Mounted - 4
*Archery - 1
*Non-combatant - 1

Unique building bonus:
*Economic - 5
*Health/happiness - 3
*Military - 1
*Culture - 1
*Great people - 1

Starting techs:
*Mysticism - 5
*Agriculture - 4
*Mining - 4
*Fishing - 3
*Hunting - 3
*The Wheel - 3

Please check out the new RB Pitboss subforum as soon as it is created, and prepare to follow all the action when the game goes live this weekend.

[sunrise089]

Poll results:

Results of poll 1: Teams
*sunrise089
*Krill + memphus
*Broker33
*ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF
*shadyforce
*regoarrarr + Danski
*Dreylin + kalin
*Imhotep
*mostly_harmless + Kodii
*Ruff
*dsplaisted + Fenton Denton Smith

Result of poll 2: Timer
18 hours

Result of poll 3: Restricted or Unrestricted leaders
Unrestricted

Result of poll 4: Duplicate civs and leaders
No duplicates

Result of poll 5: Civ/leader selection
MP/Fantasy sports style "snake pick." One random player will pick a civ or leader first, then we will head down the list of players and back up.

Result of poll 6: Game Speed
Normal

Result of poll 7: Difficulty
Noble

Result of poll 8: Huts
No huts

Result of poll 9: Barbarians
Normal barbarians

Result of poll 10: Random events
No random events

Result of poll 11: Tech trading
No tech brokering

Result of poll 12: Double moves
Double moves prohibited*

Result of poll 13: Last-minute changing of builds and techs
Last-minute changes prohibited**

* (a) - All settler moves that result in ending a turn in neutral territory must occur 9 hours (in-game) after the last movement of that settler, if applicable.
(b) - Any civilization declaring war must wait 9 hours from the war declaration to move any military units. Part B only removed by vote.
© - During a war all units in enemy or neutral territory, and all units in friendly territory that are capable of attacking or defending versus enemy units at any point during the turn must wait at least 9 hours following any previous move before they may move again.
(d) - When in doubt, act in good faith.

** (a) - Act in good faith to not power-game the espionage system.
(b) - Last-minute changing of builds and techs is discouraged. Changes of techs or builds during the last three hours of a turn will be considered acting in bad faith if they take place with any frequency. Habitual changing of builds or techs with less than nine hours of a turn remaining will also be considered acting in bad faith.

Result of poll 14: Contact with other teams
No contact until in-game contact.

Result of poll 15: Screenshot/map trades
Only after paper tech is discovered

[sunrise089]

FAQ:

I don't know if something like this has been successfully done yet (played to the end with a limited number of dropouts), but if one crowd can do it than I am confident it will be RB.

I'm not sure it has been done either, but MP guys play Ironman games from the anc era until space victory weekly, and non-ladder guys play 18-player huge map earth games that at least occasionally finish.

sunrise, are you able/willing to host as previously suggested?

I am willing to supply a computer and a generally very reliable internet connection, yes. I will likely need assistance when it comes to setting the game up though.

I'll confirm my interest in a PitBoss game. Is there some way to test that firewall settings, etc. are correct? I wouldn't want to leave an AI-filled hole due to not being able to connect.

Certainly. I can put up a test game as soon as I get the computer assembled.

All 12 of us?...Or are we planning to do six teams of 2?

I will see how many officially sign up and consult with Sullla on ideas for the map. If there are enough players to make 2 good games and the consensus is that a single game would be too large than I would propose shuffling the players randomly. I could host both games if a single PC can handle that.

I don't really care if with team or alone, but it sure would be nice to play with either sunrise or ruff

Heh, we can barely keep the game balanced with you by yourself...Imhotep is a top-50 MP ladder player now guys

Sunrise, you forget my name...

Sorry about leaving you out, but it was intentional. I only wanted to list people who had explicitly posted their willingness to play a 12-24 hour turn timer Pitboss game.

Q: Choose civs? Allow duplicates?

My thought would be restricted leaders, choose civs, duplicates off, and allow everyone to propose three choices to Sullla, ties for preference resolved via RNG. But we can take a (quick) vote on settings once we have the final list of players.

I don't think that we should force anyone to pair up if they don't want to, but groups of 2 (maybe 3 at a push) would make this a very interesting version of a demogame IMO.

I have two worries here. One is that it may expand the skill disparity between civs. Second is that it will almost certainly slow down the game and make people take longer to hit end turn. If we go with pairs I'd want to push for a timer length on the shorted side of 12-24 hours. All that said, if most people want 2-person teams I'm not going to deny them entry.

Well I really don't see what the problem would be with some civs being single-player, and some being a pair...how about paired teams of Civs?

I think we can compromise on 1-2 players per civ and no permanent alliances. PA's will create major map issues, with pairs close together having a big advantage.

...I think 12 would be very hard for me.

With the number of people who have listed 12 hours as their third preference, and the number of teams, I think 18 hour turns are very likely.

If we have 12 teams or so, maybe it would be best to put our faith in Sullla and let him choose who plays what civilization.

Probably not. Sullla would come up with some great ideas I'm sure, but part of the fun is picking a strategy and choosing a leader and/or civ to match.

Okay, if sunrise doesn't want to play in a team, I'm going on my own too . 24 hours turn timer prefered, though unrestricted leaders would be nice. But I'm fine with restricted too.

I'd like nothing better than to team up, but I'm trying to preserve the idea of a Pitboss game with many different civs, and teams run counter to that goal Unrestricted would be fun, and allow easier picking (perhaps only ban duplicate leaders), but it can create balance issues.

Just noticed the discussion is open until Thursday June 24th. Since today is Wednesday June 24th are we going to discuss for the next year

Oops!

I'd rather not go random civs tbh, at least not with the whole list. I could be persuaded to submitting a list of, say, 5 leaders and having one of those picked at random (and allow duplicates).

I'm pretty firm in my opposition to random leaders. Frankly, Elizabeth of India is just much much stronger than Pro/Imp Native America. Krill's idea of 5 pairs is a fine idea, but I would randomize the order players get their first pick rather than which of 5 picks is chosen. Regardless, I'll put up a poll tomorrow for a few options on how to pick civs, but assume random won't be one of them. If we select something complicated I'm happy to run the random drawing myself.

That would suit me really well, playing every day is not ideal for myself.

For now I'm going to take this as a team with regoarrarr.

I will happily be a team mate but will have to make it a loose affiliation - got so much going on over the next few months

How about you team with dsplaisted Fenton?

err - what was the first poll? Teams? Are you planning on burying them all in this thread or in discrete threads?

The first post in this thread will be the current poll or polls. I expect to have 3-4 rounds total, and have everything finalized for Sullla to create the map by early next week.The polls that are complete will be moved to the second post, which will be designed for lurkers to become familiar with the thread.

By the way, should there be a poll on tech trading / brokering? I am curious whether such a large game would be better played with no tech trading at all.

Tech trading/brokering will appear in the next round of polls, along with huts, events, barbs, and a few other things.

[sunrise089]

Re: teams -

I will not be playing on a team for this game.

[Krill]

I will be playing on a team for this game. My partner will be memphus (Due to this I will be able to abide by a 12 hour turn timer if that is chosen).

My thought would be restricted leaders, choose civs, duplicates off, and allow everyone to propose three choices to Sullla, ties for preference resolved via RNG. But we can take a (quick) vote on settings once we have the final list of players.

With (atleast) 13 players no duplicates means alot of people are going to need to make lists longer than 3 civs long. Allowing duplicates will make it somewhat easier (and fairer?) picking civs.

[Broker33]

I will not be playing on a team.

Edit - I would prefer a 24 hr timer.

[Dreylin]

I will be playing on a team for this game. My partner will be memphus

Eeep.

I am available to play on a team if anyone is interested in partnering with me. I will be reliably unreliable for the first 3weeks of August, however I have a regular sub available for that period if I remain unpartnered.

I could manage a 12hr timer, but would probably prefer 24hrs/turn.

[Kodii]

I am also available to be on a team. I will be away at the end of August through to the first week of September. The exact dates are not determined yet.

Unlike Dreylin, I will most likely NOT have a regular sub available.

I think an 18 hours is a good compromise between 12 and 24.

PS: Today is the 24th. Thursday is the 25th.

[Sullla]

Is a Krill/Memphus team really fair? If any team should be broken up, it's you two.

Once sunrise has a final player/team list, we can move forward to the next planning stage. I'll have some polling options in this thread at that time.

[Krill]

Hey, RB is a place of learning, right? I think the diplomacy will be a great balancing factor though, I have no idea how that's going to turn out.