[SPOILERS] Serdoa as DeGaulle of Maya

[Serdoa]

So if we can have screenies already, please give me one

As for my leader/civ: Rolling a CHA-leader (which has no longer to build SH), just to get it paired with IND and a civ starting with Myst (crying to build SH) is ... interesting.

[Serdoa]

Ok, had some time to read up on the changes of the mod and look through all the pairings we have and... boy, do I have the worst pairing of all players or what? Lewwyn, Ichabod, plako and Merovechs pairing all are imo near the level of uselessness my pairing is but none of theirs quite gets as useless. But before I rant on, lets look how often which trait was rolled:

Trait - Number of times rolles (most to least)

IND - 5
PRO - 3
CRE - 3
CHA - 3
FIN - 2
IMP - 2
ORG - 1
AGG - 1
EXP - 1
SPI - 1
PHI - 0

I'll go through them and put down my thoughts to each trait.

IND(ustrious)

Half the players are Industrious, making the trait arguably worthless. You don't gain a distinct advantage in wonder building against the opposition if half your opposition also has the trait. Even worse in PB you'll not be certain to get the wonder even if you one turn it (which is imo one of the reasons IND is stronger in PBEMs). And half price forges are a joke. Quite honestly, I think IND is actually a pretty weak trait as it is - but having only one or two players with it can make it worthwhile. In RB-Mod IND is imo even weaker than in vanilla civ. Reason being that the other weak traits are buffed in RB-Mod. With those many players having IND I believe it is without question that this trait is the weakest of all possible traits.

PRO(tective)

PRO was changed, losing the D1-promotion for Archery and GP-units but gaining half-price granaries in return. That makes the trait pretty strong imo, as you'll still have CG1 on your Archery-units and half-price walls. That together should make it pretty easy to get a fast opening, secure much land and have the units capable of holding it. Get a barracks (what you want anyway) to gain CG2 on your archers for +95% city defense BEFORE hills, extra hill bonus, fortification and culture / walls. You'll not get them dispatched easily - or at all if you build enough of them. Probably not before catapults at least. And then you'll add granaries to all your cities for accelerated growth. Even with the slavery-nerf, I still think those are worth a lot.

Oh, yes, PRO also lost half-price castles. Does anyone ever build those?

CRE(ative)

CRE was also changed, losing the half-price libraries. That makes it certainly weaker than before, but it still provides free culture, giving you more freedom in your early research and making it MUCH easier to pop borders. Especially as we play on normal speed. 5 turns instead of 10 with a monument to pop borders. And a monument needs also some turns + production to actually be built.

CHA(rismatic)

CHA gains no longer +1 happy from monuments, but only because you'll gain that "for free" with the trait. Read: It provides now 2 happiness and kept the -25% exp for promotions. Nice trait (and a little bit better than in vanilla civ), but nothing to write home about. Especially as we make sure that everyone has roughly equal amount of happiness resources, making it so that probably everyone can easily get at least size 8 cities relatively soon. Yes the +2 happiness at the start might be nice - but it is randomly generated land, certainly much less lush than we are used to from PBEMs. That makes me doubt that cities will actually be able to be grown that big. Add to that that slavery was nerfed and I get the feeling that it won't be all that strong.

FIN(ancial)

Lost the general +1 commerce on all 2+ commerce tiles. It now only works on non-riverside tiles. In exchange Banks are half-price for FIN-leaders. Thats a nerf clearly, but non-riverside tiles are after 6 turns of cottage growth at the same amount as before. Means FIN-leaders still have more viable tiles at the start to get their commerce from, but they should not get that easily ahead of everyone else.

IMP(erialistic)

Settlers are now +60% production and you get half-price custom houses. That reminds me of the castle-bonus of the old PRO - it is practically non-existent as nobody builds the building in question most of the time. Anyhow, the settler bonus is probably nice but might be able to screw you over with overflow if you don't take measures against that. Of course you also still have +100% GG-emergence. That can be helpful - especially if someone attacks you if you rex with your cheap settlers.

ORG(anized)

ORG was changed by adding half-price libraries to it. That makes it imo a really good trait, getting many buildings for cheap. And all of them you want to build in every city. Imo it was a good trait before already but with the added half-price libraries it gets so much better.

AGG(ressive)

Aggressive was not changed in RB-mod. But the barracks is now providing culture and that has of course influence on AGG. Because now you can build a barracks for the same amount of production as a monument and get the same bonus in culture for your city. That lets you ignore Mysticism and the religious techs for some time. And of course saves production for units.

EXP(ansive)

EXP was changed quite a bit in RB-mod. It lost the half-price granaries, certainly taking away much of its appeal. But in exchange it gained +35% worker production (up from 25%), 35% workboat production and half-price grocers. Thats all not as good as half-price granaries but it is certainly nice to have. I think this is still one of the better traits for the early game.

SPI(ritual)

SPI is the same as always. If one can use it, it is a great trait. If one can't... well, than it is garbage.

PHI(losophical)

No changes in the mod and no one got it so I'll ignore it.

[Mardoc]

Starts may still change. Also, see my note in the tech thread.

[Serdoa]

Thank you Mardoc. As for the note in the tech-thread: I think this start is great, no need to revise it at all (except for if you want to remove one of the grassland forests and add grassland gems instead :D)

[Serdoa]

Ok, looking at this start, my thoughts:

- cow and pig are great as pastures can be build with Hunting already
- 2 clams are nice but I'm not going to rush for those, the cow and the pig are clearly better
- many forests (maybe SH?)
- probably want to grow the cap big

Actually I thought CHA is completely worthless and IND won't do me much good, but with this start I might be glad to have the added happiness of CHA and I might build SH anyway. SH does cost 80 hammers for a IND-civ. With 2 chops I have already 40 of those. The other 40 should be possible to do with whip-overflow and normal production without too much fuss. If there are other sites nearby which need a border pop, that might actually be worth it.

What else? I think scouting should go 6 and then either 2 or 3. It doesn't make sense to go 4, I won't get any new tiles into vision. 9 won't reveal only one tile more than going 6 and also I'm not seeing anything making me want to move there. In fact, the only tile I see that could potentially worth moving is the PH. And that would mean losing Cow and 1 Clam. I could use those for a nice 2nd city though, so that wouldn't be that bad IF there is something else there. The PH alone doesn't seem good enough for me tbh. But I have only simmed the start once, so I might change my mind.

On that note: Normal is slow. I am really not used anymore to that kind of speed. 15 turns just to get the first worker out.

[Serdoa]

Well, so much for this start. I'm just hoping now that I'll get at least a start somewhat comparable to this one, as I honestly have issues getting myself motivated playing an IND-leader again and losing a great start isn't really making it all that better (yeah, I understand the reasons and they are good, as far as I can judge, but that doesn't change how I feel). It just means either playing without traits at all (by ignoring IND) or doing what I have done in... I think pretty much every game I played on RB.

Blah, lets see. Maybe I have a starting screenie in this thread tomorrow morning? Maybe I even have a new leader? One can dream, right?

[Krill]

[Serdoa]

Yeah, well, ok... you are fucking kidding me, right?

[Krill]

Still better than my PB5 start.

[Serdoa]

Yeah, if I move a tile and then have grass pigs, plains wheat, 2 floodplains, plains cow and 9 riverside tiles I agree. But... I doubt that somehow. I'm not even sure if I can go worker first here, as he simply won't have anything to do after farming the rice (well, he could mine the PH, but honestly, I can shoot myself in the foot, that doesn't mean it is particularly intelligent to do it...).

Sigh... I didn't expect to get a start as before, with two 6-yield tiles and 2 clams on top. But getting probably the worst possible start under the rules we laid out is... disheartening. Add to that, that I am dead serious when I meant that I am not keen on playing IND again and I really can't see how this will be anything than a chore for the next 1,5 years...