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I am once again asking for the quote of the month to be changed as it is now a new month - Mjmd |
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[SPOILER] Nobody's Business But The Turks
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I have no idea how this game is going to go, so here's some They Might Be Giants to fill this intro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sl4XCVmoXg
I'm playing as Mehmed of the Ottomans which might actually be one of the best economic leader/civ combos for these settings. EXP needs no introduction, cheap granaries and faster workers, plus a health bonus that actually matters because Deity. ORG is more interesting, because it's arguably the one trait in the game whose power is most directly proportional to the game's settings. Maintenance from all sources will be hell on Deity, though blunted somewhat by the Huge map size, so having cheap Courthouses and halved Civic Upkeep will be a huge help even in the early game, probably moreso than even FIN.
On the other hand, given that there are 52 players on this map space will likely be at a premium so I might not be able to really glean the benefits of ORG if I end up being squeezed too tightly. A lot of this analysis could end up being completely worthless depending on what the actual land situation is. The Ottomans themselves are pretty solid. Aqueducts are rarely worth building and adding +2 happiness to it probably won't change that. You're usually better off just running HR I find. The Janissary is a super nice unit though and makes mincemeat out of all pre-gunpowder units, so rushing them to take advantage of a technologically inferior neighbor is certainly a valid strategy. And even ignoring all this, they start with Wheel/Agri, probably the best non-China starting tech combo.   An intriguing start. Wet rice, four flood plains, and a whole bunch of hills, three of them desert(?!). A nice gems tile too. Going straight Mining->Bronze Working is the no-brainer play with this start and with Wheel/Agri, so the only real decision is staying in place or moving. The best arguments for staying in place are removing one of these useless desert hills and getting the fresh water bonus. If I weren't EXP I'd probably be inclined to stay in place for those reasons, but going on the plains hill below me gives me those crucial 2 extra hammers for a 10 turn worker, and the health bonus easily offsets not being fresh water, so onto the plains hill we go. A shame about the desert hill though 
How much does pottery cost? Could you go worker into granary? Working the gems too early is a red herring.
It's 156 beakers. Quick napkin math (9 * 1.4 = 12 for 5 turns, 10 * 1.4 = 14 for the rest for the rest) gives me 13 turns to research it, which is admittedly much faster than what would probably be the timing for Mining->BW (97 raw beakers + 234 beakers with 20%) under the same conditions. I'm not sure how much Worker->Granary would actually help since I'd still need Slavery to make immediate use of the extra growth. Instead I could do something like Worker->Worker->Grow with farms on the rice/flood plains and prechop forests until BW comes, and then chop/whip out a settler/maybe another worker until Pottery and then from there I can easily get the granary and start cottaging the flood plains. Not to mention improving the gems is just as much about the early extra happiness as it is the potential production/commerce.
I could try simming out both scenarios to see what works, but I don't see what Pottery actually does for me besides let me start building cottages sooner. I'm welcome to any opinions to the contrary of course. 
What you are forgetting is the number of worker turns you will have available. Worker eot10, rice hooked t16. Then what? Cottage the flood plains makes more sense than mining none river hills. Granary at size 2 is trivial: fp for 4 turns, 3 turns build a warrior last turn build granary, plains hill forest for 1 turn, then rice for 2 turns, growth@2 eot17, then work rice and plains hill forest for granary eot21 and food box at 12/24 and fp cottage complete t22. Growth@3 eot23 and then build another worker on rice and forests should come in around t28 then grow on warriors and plan a triple whip of a settler.
You will only have a 1.2 modifier on Pottery as you lack Fishing. OTOH, you forget the beaker from the ether so yeah, 12 beakers for 5 turns then 13 beakers to the end. Pottery eot13 I agree with. (November 28th, 2019, 04:53)Krill Wrote: You will only have a 1.2 modifier on Pottery as you lack Fishing. OTOH, you forget the beaker from the ether so yeah, 12 beakers for 5 turns then 13 beakers to the end. Pottery eot13 I agree with. Oh, I thought the secondary prereqs (in this case, Wheel) contributed to the tech bonus as well, my mistake. What do you mean by "beaker from the ether"? I know you always start with 8 from the palace and 1 from the city tile minimum, I don't recall a free 10th beaker you get from anywhere, that has to come from the tile you work. Other than that, your proposed starting sim sounds appealing, I'll have to see how the sims shake out in practice. I'm just glad my initial impressions of this start wasn't nearly as obvious as I had thought.
It's your game, I was just surprised at the "Mining into BW being a no brainer". I overstepped the mark by putting out the rough micro without your permission, so apologies for that.
Regarding the beaker from the ether, have you noticed that when you set research to zero, the turns to discover a tech still decreases? Every turn you get 1 free beaker without having to work a tile, just don't be in anarchy. It is also affected by optional prerequisite bonuses. (November 28th, 2019, 05:15)Krill Wrote: Regarding the beaker from the ether, have you noticed that when you set research to zero, the turns to discover a tech still decreases? Every turn you get 1 free beaker without having to work a tile, just don't be in anarchy."Beaker from the ether", that's nice. We at civforum call it the Sid-beaker, a little gift from Sid himself.  But you do get that beaker while being in anarchy, though. There's something cool about finishing a tech while your whole empire is technically in revolution, but there's this one scientist that says: nope, don't care about that, gotta finish this research. 
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