[LURKERS] Setting Up Tents for a Ren Faire

[Mardoc]

You can see it in his FTL streams, too - if he picks up an awesome missile or bomb, he'll often forget to even use it, while lasers are his favorite weapons.

Missiles and bombs do generally suck in FTL, though.

Not saying that you should seek them out. Or even that you should buy ammo. But when you get one from a random drop and still have ammo, there are times when it should be used. I'm perfectly happy for my analogy to have 'should use missile this battle' as an exception to the best average tactics.

[Fluffball]

The SA is definitely not mathematically inferior to the hammam. They didn't do their analysis correctly.

Maybe mathematically was the wrong word? My gut feeling is the hammam is drastically stronger because it's active so much more of the the time (100%) than a 3 fish city mercilessly beating it's citizens. It's an interesting discussion though, so feel free to disagree and prove that feeling wrong.

[GermanJoey]

The SA is definitely not mathematically inferior to the hammam. They didn't do their analysis correctly.

Maybe mathematically was the wrong word? My gut feeling is the hammam is drastically stronger because it's active so much more of the the time (100%) than a 3 fish city mercilessly beating it's citizens. It's an interesting discussion though, so feel free to disagree and prove that feeling wrong.

here: http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showt...#pid603884

also see post 54, below it, whose numbers work out even better than I had stated because I hadn't realized at that point that Ren-era starts have smaller foodboxes than ancient era games. (so you only need 13 fpt to grow from 4->5 and 14 from 5->6, not 14/15 as I say in that post)

the unstated advantage of the Hammam is that they might be able to grow their capital taller a little faster, although I don't know if that matter or not considering the early market.

[Fluffball]

That means your whipping every single city as soon as possible though, which is not even remotely realistic. You whip a few cities mercilessly, some you don't even whip at all, especially in a later era start. Based on that I think the hammam is just leagues ahead. It functions 100% of the time where a a SA only works on whips and only on those few cities you beat the hell out of.

[Zalson]

That means your whipping every single city as soon as possible though, which is not even remotely realistic. You whip a few cities mercilessly, some you don't even whip at all, especially in a later era start. Based on that I think the hammam is just leagues ahead. It functions 100% of the time where a a SA only works on whips and only on those few cities you beat the hell out of.

I'd expect them to beat the hell out every city. They'll have a ton of infrastructure and/or units. Only once they get all the infra out would I expect them to consider getting tall.

[The Black Sword]

I find it hard to see the sacrificial altar being better than the Hamman. On the other hand, I've seen some pictures of what GJ did to his cities in PB29, the man whips a lot harder than me. The addition of the Jannisary means I'm pretty sure the Ottomans are better, but I probably would have went with the Aztecs too for the same reason scooter did - it's more interesting to see if you can abuse the SA enough.

Only once they get all the infra out would I expect them to consider getting tall.

There's not too much infra to whip in a small city though. The majority of infra only benefits a tall city.

[GermanJoey]

[Krill]

That means your whipping every single city as soon as possible though, which is not even remotely realistic. You whip a few cities mercilessly, some you don't even whip at all, especially in a later era start. Based on that I think the hammam is just leagues ahead. It functions 100% of the time where a a SA only works on whips and only on those few cities you beat the hell out of.

Actually it is if you plan on doing constant triple and double whips of items ie settlers, workers and military. Settlers can't be whipped quicker than every 5 turns, but with single chops seeding each settler whip you can whip every 5 turns as IMP. And it's trivial to whip every 4 turns to get out a worker. The requirement is only how much food you can get per turn. You need to hit 14fpt on the growth turns, but if you overlap food resources it's actually not impossible to get that in a good number of cities. And even if you can't hit that exact fpt value, you're still able to whip a lot harder than other civs due to their limitations on happiness.

[Old Harry]

Is there a way of factoring the 30 hammers you save on a sacrificial altar into the happiness calculations?

[Krill]

Wouldn't you get the free hammam in ren?

There is a specific point where Aztecs are better than everything else, given org/imp. Massive wide growth and food resources all hooked, means no one will be able to compete in war given equal tech, short of a rush happening before that point is reached. Tie in SoL and other per city bonuses and that start can be effective. Later on I would expect it to fall off to fin and spi, but there is going to be a window where Aztecs ought to be in control. I'm not sure if that will happen here because of Nic and REM seem to be stronger and have better late game; at least the distance between them and Aztecs should not be all that great if they keep on playing so well.