[PB63 Spoilers] - Pindicator Unlocks 10 Year Achievement

[pindicator]

Well that seems like a silly option. I just need to open the diplo menu to see what they have

[Charriu]

It was meant to be used with 'No city trading'. But you guys voted in favor of both.

[pindicator]

I'm fine with calling my competitors silly

[Krill]

.Finally, there appears to be a bug with the number of cities display.  I've been assuming it was accurate, but when I opened the diplo menu for JackRB I saw that he has 2 cities but the UI is only showing him as having 1.  So I checked everybody's diplomacy menu and came up with the following city counts:

Mr. Cairo	2
Fabled	2
Cornflakes	3
Bing Xi Lao	2
Ginger	3
JackRB	2
Superdeath	2
Mjmd	n/a

I'll be checking menus every turn now that it appears the UI doesn't capture city counts as accurately as I assumed it did.

That's not a bug. It appears you are playing with the "City count tied to espionage" game option. With that you only get the accurate count together with the graphs represented by a white color.
Blue color means you don't have enough espionage and only the the amount of cities you discovered so far or that could be determined otherwise.

Why do you consider a UI change giving factually incorrect information acceptable?

[Zed-F]

From a UI point of view, maybe you shouldn't be able to select the "City count tied to espionage" option unless 'No city trading' is enabled. Presumably in this case you can't see the city counts in the diplo window either, or at least not the full list, on the principle of displaying only information that your scouts and spies have been able to establish.

[Charriu]

Finally, there appears to be a bug with the number of cities display.  I've been assuming it was accurate, but when I opened the diplo menu for JackRB I saw that he has 2 cities but the UI is only showing him as having 1.  So I checked everybody's diplomacy menu and came up with the following city counts:

That's not a bug. It appears you are playing with the "City count tied to espionage" game option. With that you only get the accurate count together with the graphs represented by a white color.
Blue color means you don't have enough espionage and only the the amount of cities you discovered so far or that could be determined otherwise.

Why do you consider a UI change giving factually incorrect information acceptable?

To give a bit of history. The city count in the scoreboard with all it's functionality comes from BUG itself and I only merged it into the mode without any major changes. In the beginning this was no problem as the "City count tied to espionage" did not exist and therefore the city count always showed the correct amount. At some point somebody requested the "City count tied to espionage" option. I looked into implementing it. When I implemented it I noticed that without enough espionage the city count showed only the amount of cities you discovered in blue instead of the correct amount in white. Back then I thought that it is enough and everybody would be aware of it because of the game option.
So what can be done about it. With the game option on the now blue city count means "X or more cities". So how would best represent that maybe with a ">=X" or "X?".

[Charriu]

From a UI point of view, maybe you shouldn't be able to select the "City count tied to espionage" option unless 'No city trading' is enabled. Presumably in this case you can't see the city counts in the diplo window either, or at least not the full list, on the principle of displaying only information that your scouts and spies have been able to establish.

The game SDK does not allow me to do "you shouldn't be able to select the "City count tied to espionage" option unless 'No city trading' is enabled". The last part may be possible. I would have to look into it.

[Zed-F]

I think X? For an uncertain number is cleaner and more intuitive.

Edit: potentially another thing you can do is make the ‘city count tied to espionage’ have no effect unless the no city trading button is also selected and edit the label accordingly, e.g. adding ‘(requires no city trading)’ to it. Not sure if this is necessary if the diplo city list can be partly or completely hidden though.

I’ll further note that this option isn’t particularly realistic, since diplomats are also involved in information gathering and such basic information as what cities exist are common knowledge, but that’s perhaps not relevant to how the option works.

[Charriu]

I’ll further note that this option isn’t particularly realistic, since diplomats are also involved in information gathering and such basic information as what cities exist are common knowledge, but that’s perhaps not relevant to how the option works.

Oh we better don't go down the "that's not realistic" well. 

[pindicator]

039

Time to panic?




Superdeath has once again whipped his capital down to size 1. Some of this power could be explained by Animal Husbandry - probably best case scenario for us is AH plus an axe? But if that's a pair of holkans (or worse, axes) coming our way, I'm not sure there's much we can do except pray that they don't get to us before we can finish our copper and whip the warrior-turned-phalanx in Kissing Coppers.

Worker 2 finished and moved SW onto the forest, heading for the deer. Settler started at Balloon Girl for city 3.