FFH2PBEMXII Organizing and Tech Thread

[Krill]

Posted in my thread if you want to check that out.

[Serdoa]

Vote for Normal. Give the PZs some love (and dare you rush ME with them Sareln)

[Krill]

I would prefer a higher land/player ratio than Dregs, so if standard/inland sea is giving that ratio, I would prefer it to be large (and just for completeness's sake, I said the same to SL before we picked civs).

[Bobchillingworth]

I'm only Sareln's dedicated lurker so feel free to ignore me, but Standard with 6 players is a significantly better land-to-player ratio than small with 5. Especially with low sea level. Since standard maps are supposed to normally hold 7-8 civs comfortably. A large map with medium seas for only six players is massive.

[Mist]

Guys, this isn't making it any clearer for me

If you need us to vote, we vote for Large. Because yes, it does make life easier for us. But I don't think it will bring you any closer to clear majority you seek :neenernee

If I don't see a clear consensus either way, default will be to continue with the Normal/low sea map I started first, assuming I figure out how to swap Amelia's civ/leader without starting from scratch.

Edit WB file in text editor, you want to alter section between BeginPlayer and EndPlayer tags. If you're not sure how, send me that fragment by email and I do the edits for you.

[Serdoa]

I agree wholeheartedly that I don't want a map which is so small that everyone rushes everyone else within 20 turns. But I also don't want a map where everyone has place for 20+ cities and it all becomes about city spam. Because I feel that this would be a game that even more then any potential rush-game does not need to be played out with the composition of civs we have.

I also think that whole discussion about map sizes and sea level might be misleading in that regard. Mardoc, can you maybe tell us roughly the amount of land tiles you have foreseen per player? After we know that it is some kind of inland sea I don't think that this would take away much.

(Oh and btw: I think Inland Sea is an interesting map type so you have my already)

[Krill]

One issue with inland sea maps is the starts can be quite close together even though there is a lot of land on the map on a low sea level. A standard size map on IS is about, what, 52 tiles wide? So you're looking at not all that large a distance between civs, maybe about 10-12 tiles, and about 225 tiles per player (low sea level), though that's including desert, peaks and tundra tiles in that.

A large map OTOH has about 330 tiles per player and is 64 tiles wide so you are looking more at about 20 tiles between players (medium sea level).

This is one of the few maps where low sea level doesn't have an affect on starting distances, some others being Hub (who cares about it) and Highlands.

[Serdoa]

52 tiles divided by 3 players gives 17 for everyone (+1 left). So we look at something like

(8 - x - 8) - (8 - x - 8) - (8 - x- 8)

64 would mean 21 per player, so

(10 - x - 10) - (10 - x - 10) - (10 - x - 10)

So the discussion is basically between 16 or 20 tiles between civs caps and 200 to 300 tiles per player.

I still would prefer normal, simply because in my test I had 19 tiles between civs and that was quite some way. 300 tiles per player also means around 15-20 cities per player without any wars - thats imo too many to even consider rushing someone as you will need an eternity before you have even used up your space. Rushing is only an option if you want to lose as you simply can't hold that land and so will only have the cost without the benefit.

Having said that, in the end I will play whatever we get. I just don't feel that "Settle like crazy for 150+ turns" is a game anyone but CoE will win

[Sareln]

I don't know that the Hippus will become overall favorites from the start just because the map is big, it will help though. Remember - I don't have an economic trait!

I just want to play a game with the set up I have chosen.

Mardoc - please just toss a coin or something if it really is 3-3...

I think every player has weighed in at this point. I don't think we'll get overwhelming consensus either way and given that we've all stated we're fine with our picks regardless of what comes out, I'd be fine with just flipping the coin and moving on with the killing already

[Mardoc]

I think every player has weighed in at this point. I don't think we'll get overwhelming consensus either way and given that we've all stated we're fine with our picks regardless of what comes out, I'd be fine with just flipping the coin and moving on with the killing already

This does appear to be the case. Next time - have this discussion/vote before the game! Or make it clear that everyone's fine with mapmaker discretion within a certain range.

The coin came up Normal. So we'll stick with that. I should be able to respond to lurker suggestions tonight or tomorrow, get one more round of comments after that, and I'll aim to have the map done by Friday. Again, I'm generally aiming for minimal edits, so there will be some imbalances left.