Civ VI and wargames: an Ed Beach profile

[Hail]

Usually releases are in time for Xmas. So I expect it to be unveiled around February 2016 and on sale by Halloween. If they continue with the Frankenstein testing group (edit, just checked, there is something at that address that requires login) so I expect that they are currently going through the iterative design process that they did for civ 4 and civ 5.

on sale (discounted price)? wat? you mean release?

Interesting thread! But, in my opinion, if the designer of Civ 5 expansions is in charge of Civ 6, it'll be a bad game.

I think G&K is better than vanilla Civ 5 only because they added more features, which gave players more leeway (basically, they added more ways to get happiness). The religious system, though, in my opinion, is poorly designed, poorly balanced and incredibly convoluted for no good reason. It's also totally luck based, so it doesn't add any meaningful strategic depth.

And, in my opinion, BNW is worse than G&K. Trade routes are a very badly implemented system (there's actually two different TR systems in BNW, which is mind-boggling bad design, if you stop to think about it). The decision to take gold away from rivers made the game almost unplayable in MP, where you can't abuse AI for gold (well, unplayable if gold mattered for something, but it actually doesn't), and the TR system don't work to solve that (for most of the early-mid game, TRs aren't worth even the maintenance cost of the caravan unit). Everything else added is just feature bloating that adds nothing significant to the game. Well, perhaps the tourism system is nice, haven't really tested it. But, to be fair, I doubt it...

At the end of the day, Civ 5, especially on MP, is a game that punishes you for doing things. You don't have happiness to expand and grow, you don't have money to build units and buildings. The best thing you can do is just stay put and do nothing, while getting the freebies from the one right choices (tradition being the most obvious one).

Perhaps the guy can do a better job if he designs the game from scratch. I may sound like a broken record with the Civ 5 bashing, but I think I played enough SP and MP to come to a reasoned opinion. And at the end of the day, it's possible to have fun with Civ 5, but it's not a good strategy game.

agree.
G&K added religions they consciously took out from vanilla.
BNW is a feature-bloat mess. what is the point of archeological digs, if 98% tourism will come from culture?
Ideologies is a feature for let's add a feature sake. civ5 in general has too many buckets that fill up and the player gets a reward. why duplicate mechanics?
giving AI units free xp is a magnitude better approach than giving it a production bonus imo.
their attempt to balance wide vs tall is pure bs anyway. oh, well.

on civ6:
looking at Endless Legend, civ6 will probably has many quests. I detest quest-driven gameplay in a 4X game.
civ6 will definitely have 1UpT and will be a mess on release. many will buy the game anyway and return to civ5 BNW shortly after purchase.
maybe Firaxis will even add RPG elements, like city governors that can level up.
nowdays, the moneymen have too much say in game dev. I can only hope that civ6 will not end up like Spore.

[Bacchus]

I thought the RPG craze is now past. I really hope it is, it's high time designers returned to focus on mechanics.

My hope is that Firaxis will feel that they plugged the "casual" niche with Civ5 so much so that another game in the same vein will do nothing but cannibalize their own sales, so Civ6 will be pitched at a different niche. It would be interesting to see their models and numbers. Also, what an effect Steam has on the whole issue — previously even if you have a successful product, you pretty much had to keep re-releasing it to keep the buzz up and have stores put your boxes out up front, now that continuing sales are a thing and you can always "feature" your product, re-hashing old ground surely lost much of its appeal.

[Krill]

Usually releases are in time for Xmas. So I expect it to be unveiled around February 2016 and on sale by Halloween. If they continue with the Frankenstein testing group (edit, just checked, there is something at that address that requires login) so I expect that they are currently going through the iterative design process that they did for civ 4 and civ 5.

on sale (discounted price)? wat? you mean release?

Released as in available to buy?

[spacetyrantxenu]

For sale vs. on sale it would seem. :P

[Hail]

I thought the RPG craze is now past. I really hope it is, it's high time designers returned to focus on mechanics.

My hope is that Firaxis will feel that they plugged the "casual" niche with Civ5 so much so that another game in the same vein will do nothing but cannibalize their own sales, so Civ6 will be pitched at a different niche. It would be interesting to see their models and numbers. Also, what an effect Steam has on the whole issue — previously even if you have a successful product, you pretty much had to keep re-releasing it to keep the buzz up and have stores put your boxes out up front, now that continuing sales are a thing and you can always "feature" your product, re-hashing old ground surely lost much of its appeal.

imo the RPG + TBS craze is just beginning.
Look at Endless Space, Endless Legend, Total War series. even civ4 has some RPG elements with (concerning) promotions, but that's stretching it pretty far.

I want to agree with you about civ6. your point of view has internal logic, but it deviates from reality.
the reality is that Battlefield 5 was recently announced. The prime example is CounterStrike. I played it to death in a computer club in ealy 2000. a long time ago I kleptomaniacally bought cs:go on sale. I fired it up. you what? it's the same. everything is same! same guns, same mechanics, same maps. the changes are only graphical! notice: AAA games come and go, but cs:go never leaves the top sellers list on steam. should I mention Heroes of Might and Magic (already VII in the queue!)?
how about Total War?
while Total War: Attila is still fresh in the queue, The Creative Assembly announces a Total War Warhammer game.

tl;dr version: Dennis Shirk before civ5's release said something to the extent that Firaxis wants to make a game for the casual crowd. they want to milk the casuals. with civ5, the moneymen at 2K have a strong feeling they hit the nail on the head. I cannot disagree with them. game mechanics wise, civ6 will be 80% exactly like civ5. a franchise like any other. there will be some tinkering with the mechanics, but imo "1UpT, quests, freebies, passive gameplay, buckets filling up and granting a reward" gameplay is here to stay. Firaxis wanted to start a sci-fi franchise. they failed horribly, but that does not mean they will alter their ways. I bet you there will be a civ:be2 somewhere down the line. how similar it will be to civ:be solely depends on if the moneymen at 2K feel they hit the nail on the head. obviously, the do not feel so now.

Usually releases are in time for Xmas. So I expect it to be unveiled around February 2016 and on sale by Halloween. If they continue with the Frankenstein testing group (edit, just checked, there is something at that address that requires login) so I expect that they are currently going through the iterative design process that they did for civ 4 and civ 5.

on sale (discounted price)? wat? you mean release?

Released as in available to buy?

yes. to me "on sale" is "purchasable at a discount". maybe it's just me though.

[Krill]

I'm not arguing grammar at this time of a night.

[Bacchus]

notice: AAA games come and go, but cs:go never leaves the top sellers list on steam

I'd say the Counter-Strike franchise reinforces my point, if anything — 8 years passed between Source and Global Offensive, and even then Global Offensive was developed largely to widen the market to consoles. I fully expect GO to remain the current title for 5 years hence at least. Team Fortress 2 is 8 years old now as well, and is getting updates, not replacements.

The HoMM line of remakes is a disgrace to game development and a terrible waste of programmer's time. Similar re-releases make sense for story/period driven games, though -- Assassin's Creed and the Total War series fall in this category.

I don't know why they feel the need to replace Battlefield, but weren't there serious issues with 4?

[NobleHelium]

"On sale" can be used to mean "available for purchase," it may not be familiar to you.

[Hail]

notice: AAA games come and go, but cs:go never leaves the top sellers list on steam

I'd say the Counter-Strike franchise reinforces my point, if anything — 8 years passed between Source and Global Offensive, and even then Global Offensive was developed largely to widen the market to consoles. I fully expect GO to remain the current title for 5 years hence at least. Team Fortress 2 is 8 years old now as well, and is getting updates, not replacements.

The HoMM line of remakes is a disgrace to game development and a terrible waste of programmer's time. Similar re-releases make sense for story/period driven games, though -- Assassin's Creed and the Total War series fall in this category.

I don't know why they feel the need to replace Battlefield, but weren't there serious issues with 4?

1. software is produced primarily to be sold.
2. one cannot sell the software to the owner of the software again.

today the domninant a "AAA game" monetizing strategy is to create franchises (a well-known brand) and milk them dry. keep selling games: civ6, civ7, homm7, homm8, battlefield5, battlefield6, Bioshock Space, etc.

notably cs:go and Team Fortress 2 have a different monetizing model: cs:go sells skins and TF2 sells hats.

[SevenSpirits]

Hehe, the way you put that is great.

There are currently two major, successful methods for making money off of games. One method is to repeatedly make games and sell them to people. The other one is virtual hats.