Seven: morning
Mackoti: evening
Seven: you saw our starts?
Mackoti: nope
just now
Seven: k
Mackoti: having gems
that means fast tech
Seven: yes
my impression is we got one start with incredible food, and the other one with nice bureaucap
so I wonder if elizabeth plan is as good anymore
Mackoti: well we can get libraie in second
and first city has eneough
food to run 2 scientists
Seven: so what are you thinking?
Mackoti: i have to think a litle bit more
i am slower
Seven: k of course
Mackoti: why do you think elizabeth its not good?
Seven: maybe still good
but seeing start #1 with so much food and #2 with not much
I wondered if we need to change our plans a bit
I definitely think techer goes in position #2
I am not sure what traits we want in position #1
organized looks good
Mackoti: you were thinking we want natioanl epic for start 1?
Seven: well it's one option
other option which I think I like better is moai
Mackoti: maoi and heroic epic
could be excelent
Seven: hm
well I was assuming we will have bureaucracy for a whil
in that case don't need heroic epic there too
unless you are thinking to move that capital
Mackoti: knigs are expensives
for 1 turn
knigt
you need heroic epic
Seven: true
but I prefer not moai and HE together especially with bureau too, since in a golden age on quick will probably waste hammers
Mackoti: thats true
Seven: and HE in city where we want bank is not great
Mackoti: yep
perhaps find a beter spot
but dpends how map is
Seven: yeah we can wait with deciding that
Mackoti: perhaps we need a strong
port city
Seven: true
Mackoti: if naval proves esential
so when i can see chat with krill?
something good in it?
Seven: I think it's worth reading
since I asked him for permission though I think I better wait to post it
Mackoti: k
Seven: he is thinking joao again
which I think is bad at least for the starts we have
he thinks joao in #1
and getting fewer cities than techer and gifting settlers that were produced from 4->2 whips
and giving all early happy to techer
Mackoti: and how to finace the techer?
Seven: and techer running <100% science
Mackoti: in this condition?
Seven: yeah exactly
well I guess he assumes lots of cottages everywhere
and joao with only a few cities, so no expenses
but also, techer running less than 100
I think he is thinking about late game
Mackoti: wasting buildings like libaries
Seven: when tech rate can be higher
Mackoti: man having a monster civ and the other weak
its wrong
Seven: I agree
Mackoti: cauze cities expenses are not liniar
Seven: I might have convinced him of this a bit, not sure
Mackoti: who krill?
doubt
Seven: yeah
Mackoti: i think fin org
for first could be very nice
Seven: aha
I thought so too
Mackoti: and perhaps
exp philo
Seven: Krill was saying a lot that FIN for #1 was total disaster
Mackoti: for second
why?
that
Seven: no river
well actually I think he just thought fewer cottages
Mackoti: but looks like we get some coast
there
and ligouse lakes
Seven: yeah, with a quick lighthouse that city already looks very nice
Mackoti: will be excelent
and expansiv for second looks temting
growing fast to 6
dotn know if worth long term
Seven: you're right, it does look very good for the start
I hadn't let myself really consider yet not putting FIN in #2, but I did think it's very good for EXP
Mackoti: just bouncing ideeas
org ind looks good for first too
Seven: yup it's a good idea
yeah that too
Mackoti: so elizabeth for second
here i found philo strong
dont need that much food to get great people
fast
and man having knings
before ad
will be huge
i see academy still very useful
Seven: if we pick org ind for first, do we have any plan for a wonder already?
Mackoti: well i was thinking for colosus
Seven: oh nice
that is team benefit?
Mackoti: yep
Seven: so krill also looked up some tech costs
seems we can get BW in 7t [Actually it's 8.5 turns.]
was it 7.5? I think that's right
so tech will be pretty quick early
plus we start with 2 extra
all before gems...
of course slowing down with expansion
but my reaction to that was, writing will come before we are ready for it
heh
Mackoti: if tech its that cheap
perhaps some expansionist traits would be better
perhaps normal speed was beter than
Seven: I think it will just be at the start of the game
7t is not out of the ordinary for BW on quick
difference is we start with 2 extra techs
once we start getting more cities
well, difficulty is immortal
so basically we picked settings so techs are about as expensive as in a noble or prince pbem
but maintenance will be higher than in standard game
(except, in this one it's not toroidal)
Mackoti: so org will be still nice
Seven: gems at start is new piece of info though
yes
and lighthouse looks really tasty in 50% of cities we can see
Mackoti: i think both civ will have coast
so getting colosus wil be nice
so for now i am sold
on lizzie
and roosvelt
Seven: ok
Mackoti: i think we can do this way
going after oracle
or researching
MC
but i think getting oracle could be beter
we want a religion anyway
Seven: yeah
one thing I wish we could afford in this plan
is having a SPI leader
free happy near the start would be pretty nice
and easy access to OR
asoka could be really good for start 1 I think
Mackoti: we need other stategy then
its thee order of team established?
Seven: yes
Mackoti: what spot we have?
Seven: best one
Mackoti: 1?
Seven: 1 turn order
4th pick
Mackoti: super
Seven: yeah
Mackoti: well will have to wait
to see what to pick
Seven: indeed
also we will have some more options with civs, none of them perfect
since we want every tech except hunting
if we don't start with fishing, can't start with a WB
myst might be good for quick religion
agriculture and mining are both great techs for start #2
and mining needed for BW, great for start #1
and wheel of course nice to have
Mackoti: well i dotn think its that important
having some strong civs its more important
then having 4 techs
i think
Seven: ok
Mackoti: catapracts man
Seven: yeah I was thinking about those
Mackoti: on my hand
would be awesome
Seven: if we go for roosevelt
mali would be great
england is also nice for funder
rome is weird - unique market but GPP bonus would be better for techer
Mackoti: ind goes well too with cataprcts civ
Seven: you mean because we will need MC?
Mackoti: you need forges online
when start on practs
those are expensives
Seven: aha
man I think we are very lucky we get to make all our picks in pairs
Mackoti: yep
very
Seven: what do you think about spiritual?
Mackoti: its competiton with org?
or with philo?
Seven: I didn't consider it for our techer since techer has important other things to do already
thinking competition with org or ind I guess
Mackoti: its hard
org its good
spi its good
Ind its good
Seven: yep
Mackoti: giving up on ind
i think we should gave up on colosus
and catapracts
Seven: yeah, expensive price to pay
although oracle will be a risky play
I think there will be fierce competition for wonders
Mackoti: same here
becasue of that i dont think stonehenge its on books for us
Seven: yeah
you think cataphracts better than sumeria?
Mackoti: depends
but it would be beter to have those in my team then against me
Seven: hehe
you know, maybe we can get CoL pretty quick anyway
with fast currency
and having priesthood...
Mackoti: ye i think
practs are beter
Seven: k
civs we can combo with byz for having 4 of the 5 "good" techs:
Agri/Fishing: America, Dutch, NA
Fishing/Mining: Carthage, England, Portugal, Rome
Agri/Mining: China
Mackoti: china could be nice
Seven: for chokonus?
Mackoti: and pavilion
man i know culture its important
and chokonuts are good
longer live then most of UU
Seven: yeah
Mackoti: still kind of expensives
Seven: yup
also there is mali, shouldn't forget that
though I bet could be picked early
Mackoti: for funding team?
Seven: yeah
Mackoti: you need ind for that
and its working nice
with spi
i think
with org religion
and forges
can get markets
faster
so you can get a 35%
multiplier
Seven: yup
I mean basically if our funder has IND it's just free gold
Mackoti: so ind spi?
perhaps
of mali?
Seven: I think it could work just as well with ind/org
Mackoti: and more freedom
with religion
slavery
Seven: yes
Mackoti: how we get a prophet?
angor what?
Seven: oracle can help
I don't understand how you got to spiritual with religion focus, from mali
I mean it's good, but I don't understand the connection, or why mali would make that more desirable compared to ORG
Mackoti: well you have a building which gaves gold
forge
which its expensive without
ind
and if you have religion can get org religion
and get markets
at 50% off
and more than that can spread religion to your teammate
and 50% on courthosues
too
aand atopt teocracy if nedeed
Seven: you make a good argument for spiritual, I still don't know how thinking mali instead of byzantium was part of it though
Mackoti: becasue we will not focus on atacking at knigs but later
Seven: aha
hm, hard to decide
hm, one interesting thing with mali
mining wheel
means other civ should be 2 of agri, myst, fishing
that is only
spain, natives, dutch
I think I prefer plan to attack with knights (also gets us near banking which is amazing tech
Mackoti: indeed
you cant geth both infratructure
and an atack on time
Seven: k
so I know finally your secret
ignore religion
so you can win races for other things
Mackoti: always a price to pay
Seven: I posted chat with krill if you want to look
